I was wondering, since religions are fundamentally social structures built to set hierarchies and justify inequality, and all religious dogma and theology has failed to disprove the null hypothesis of atheism, does it hamper a comrade's integrity if she is conflicted in shedding off her circumstantial religion?

What do you guys think?

  • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]
    ·
    5 months ago

    all religious dogma and theology has failed to disprove the null hypothesis of atheism

    Religion and theism are completely orthogonal. The go-to atheist religion (or at least nontheist religion) is Scientology. Just try searching for "god," "deity," or "theism/theist" in the Wikipedia articles on Scientology or Church of Scientology and you'll not find a single sentence that points to worship or even belief in a deity. From Scientology beliefs and practices, we get:

    The Church of Scientology states that it has no set dogma on God and allows individuals to come to their own understanding of God.[43] In Scientology, "vastly more emphasis is given to the godlike nature of the [individual] and to the workings of the human mind than to the nature of God."[35] Hubbard did not clearly define God in Scientology. When pressed about their belief, Scientologists mention the "eighth dynamic" which they say is the "God dynamic".[44]

    Scientologists affirm the existence of a deity without defining or describing its nature. L. Ron Hubbard wrote in his book Science of Survival, "No culture in the history of the world, save the thoroughly depraved and expiring ones, has failed to affirm the existence of a Supreme Being. It is an empirical observation that men without a strong and lasting faith in a Supreme Being are less capable, less ethical and less valuable."[45]: 113  Instead of defining God, members assert that reaching higher states of enlightenment will enable individuals to make their own conclusions about the Supreme Being.[46]

    ie our religion is de facto atheist, but since most newly and potential converts come from Christian backgrounds, we'll pay lip service to the idea of a god and say that God is infinity even though God is completely irrelevant to our religious beliefs and practices and absolutely nothing about Scientology changes if you think God isn't real. And to shoot down any potential counterarguments:

    • L Ron Hubbard isn't a god but closer to a prophet like Muhammad.

    • Xenu isn't a god or a satan-like figure either. He's just some intergalactic warlord. There isn't anything particularly divine or demonic about him.

    • Thetans are just souls. Scientology beliefs would say that you could acquire god-like powers, but that really isn't a belief, let alone worship, of gods either.

    Religion is first and foremost a set of practices. Religious belief is secondary to religious practices, which would look radically different depending on religion. In other words, Zeus doesn't actually care if you believe in his existence or not. He wants the sacrifice he's entitled to. If you don't give him his sacrifice, he'll lighting bolt your ass, and if you give him his sacrifice without actually believing in him, whatever who cares Zeus still got his shit. Virtually no other god, from Zeus to Thor to the Jade Emperor to Quetzalcoatl to Vishnu to Olorun, cares that you believe in them, which means religious belief isn't central to these respective religious traditions in the way religious practice is. If you desecrate their shrine through neglect in religious practice, they'll fuck you up, and if you consecrate their shrine through religious practice, they'll reward you. Religious belief does not even enter the equation. There's only one very notable exception to this, and that is the God of Abraham.

    It's through Christianity and Protestantism in particular that religious practice takes a backseat with respect to religious belief. This is why some dude who never goes to church but "has a personal relationship with Jesus" is considered a Christian by other (Protestant) Christians, which is completely contrary to almost every other religious tradition. Even other Abrahamic religions like Judaism and Islam still place importance on religious practice. A Muslim has to pray 5 times a day, complete the Hajj at least once in their life, and fast during Ramadan. These are Islamic religious practices. The main difference between Islam and other religions is that in Islam, the Muslim has to sincerely belief in the shahada while for other religions, belief in a shahada equivalent is optional but praying 5 times a day and taking the pilgrimage is still mandatory for you to actually be a member of that religion.

    "But wait, if religious belief is secondary to religious practice, then you could have some religious ceremony where 80% of people don't actually profess religious belief but still go through the motions." And how is this any different from Sunday service? You really think everyone in church actually believes in Jesus? The main difference is that nonbelievers of non-Abrahamic faiths aren't saddled with guilt and fear about being send to non-Abrahamic Hell. "Then what's the point of going through the motions?" Because religious practice reinforces communal bounds, because religious practice is what you need to do to not get chased out of town, because religious practice is a form of cultural practice, because religious practice is fun and festive, because religious practice is a societal stabilizing force, because religious practice distracts people from how life sucks, because religious practice mystifies class domination and oppression. They're plenty of reasons, both good and bad, but none of them have really anything to do with the existence or inexistence of a god.

    My ramblings did not answer your question whatsoever, but I ramble here to try to make you see that your understanding of religion is most likely completely colored by Christianity and Protestantism in particular and if you study other religious traditions outside of Abrahamism, a lot of what you understand as religion doesn't apply to those non-Abrahamic religions. For example, Chinese folk religion is a complete trip if your understanding of religion is just Protestantism.

      • Philosoraptor [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        5 months ago

        They didn't call atheism a religion though. They pointed out--correctly, in my opinion--that atheism is compatible with most religions, since the majority of them put primacy on religious practice rather than religious belief.