If self immolation is "doing a liberalism" then I really wish more libs would do liberalism. Fact is, it is absolutely not liberalism. It is in the most literal sense an act of ultimate self sacrifice, even if that sacrifice is almost totally ineffectual in the face of an uncaring, unimpressed enemy and an alienated, thoroughly propagandized society. It is tragic that this person was so extremely alienated from any kind of community that could have channeled their willingness to sacrifice themselves in a way that would have made a vastly bigger, more meaningful impact. But it's hardly surprising when you consider the alienated reality we're living in, and definitely not deserving of derision. Being cold and condescending about this person's desperation and even their courage to do what they did for what we all here would agree is a good and just cause (freeing Palestine and opposing the oppression and genocide by Israel) is disgusting. You are the one being a lib here.
For the record, I also have no sympathy for US troops. Fuck them. Unless they do everything they can, even give up their lives to fight against the system or entity they joined once they realize what it really is. And even though it may have been sadly misguided, this guy did just that.
he's better than all the other libs and maybe it's unfair to expect alienated propagandized yankees to organize anything, but there was Stop Our Ship and shit in the 70s. the individualism and the ineffectuality are very lib-brained
What would that have done? This guy is in the US Airforce, not the IDF. This isnt like Veitnam or Korea, or any of the other genocidal actions take by the US Military, because the US military isnt the one perpetuating this genocide, Israel is. Killing some low level Air Force officer in DC isnt going to do anything to help Palestinians.
Think about it: if he had killed another member of the Air Force "for Palestine" that would be incredible propaganda for Israel. It would have done nothing but create further fuel for American support for Israel.
As a purely hypothetical and academic discussion...
Soldiers going Postal and killing commanders in the US armed forces is a very different level of blowback to supporting Genocide than dealing with protesters in the streets. A certain level of protest and ill-will from the population is factored in to these decisions: losing career commanders is not. If you're going to go out and set an example for how to refuse to take part in an organization that aids a genocide, you may as well do as much damage as you possibly can. There's no moral duty to go easy on genociders, even if they're one degree of separation removed.
As for your argument about whether or not it would be twisted by the media - of course it would. But with a proper letter of intent drafted and mailed to multiple media outlets and unaffiliated journalists, at least some exposure to the true messaging could be achieved. This isn't an atmosphere of unilateral control over the media like was possible in the 80's and 90's, and people are more open to dissenting voices now than ever. There's already high profile examples of officials resigning that could be pointed to as well.
It's not some fringe crank position to be anti-israel at this point. The resignation was almost 4 months ago. That there hasn't been any escalation of resistance is more surprising than anything. I genuinely think if you're in the armed forces and have decided you're willing to die for this moral issue, we're at a point where it's both morally and strategically viable to harm the structure as much as possible on the way out.
If there was an organized group of people in the military that could carry out a targetted strike against their superiors then sure id agree, but a single man isn't going to do much.
There's no moral argument against killing members of a genocidal fascist military, sure, but there is a realistic one and its that you cant just kill people by trying really hard. It takes effort and ability that may not be avaliable to an individual to actually effectively carry out an assassination. I think that since we so often talk about these things in the hypothetical (joking about fragging and stuff), it obfuscates the fact that it takes real material work to do these things properly, and getting caught before you can do anything is incredibly easy.
Covering yourself in gasoline and flicking a lighter is far far easier to carry out alone, even if the individual will to kill yourself in such a way is not present in most people.
There's no moral argument against killing members of a genocidal fascist military, sure, but there is a realistic one and its that you cant just kill...
Gosh darn it I'm glad someone said it before me. I'll admit to a bit of red-tinged fantasies myself, but until that moment when it's my choice to pull the trigger and end a humans life i don't know that i could.
We don't know what this guy's job was. For all we know about him he not only might he not have the training to kill another soldier, he might not have the will. Maybe he values life highly. I for one give him the benefit of the doubt cuz whatever his convictions were, he held them tightly and paid for them with force and will.
Difficult maybe, but doable. And again, we're talking about someone who has already chosen to forfeit their life in pursuit of resistance. I think suicide is, all considered, a less effective form of a resistance than other paths - but if it's the one someone has chosen, one may as well go the extra mile and raise the costs as much as possible. Even if it doesn't succeed entirely, any amount of additional cost beyond cleaning your body off a sidewalk is a loss to the death machine of US empire, and the credible threat of future people finding inspiration in the action/copy-cat attempts will have to be factored into decision making as well.
Youre gonna call self immolation liberalism, then post idealistic nonsense like this? Yeah we can all wish our enemies are going to just suddenly wake up one day, realize theyre hitler, and off themselves and their cohorts. But thats not gonna fucking happen, so wake up and deal with reality as it exists.
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A person just killed themselves to try to stop a genocide and you call them a loser because you're super cool
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If this solider's actions aren't praxis, posting isn't either. Lib
Cool story
thanks!
If self immolation is "doing a liberalism" then I really wish more libs would do liberalism. Fact is, it is absolutely not liberalism. It is in the most literal sense an act of ultimate self sacrifice, even if that sacrifice is almost totally ineffectual in the face of an uncaring, unimpressed enemy and an alienated, thoroughly propagandized society. It is tragic that this person was so extremely alienated from any kind of community that could have channeled their willingness to sacrifice themselves in a way that would have made a vastly bigger, more meaningful impact. But it's hardly surprising when you consider the alienated reality we're living in, and definitely not deserving of derision. Being cold and condescending about this person's desperation and even their courage to do what they did for what we all here would agree is a good and just cause (freeing Palestine and opposing the oppression and genocide by Israel) is disgusting. You are the one being a lib here.
For the record, I also have no sympathy for US troops. Fuck them. Unless they do everything they can, even give up their lives to fight against the system or entity they joined once they realize what it really is. And even though it may have been sadly misguided, this guy did just that.
he's better than all the other libs and maybe it's unfair to expect alienated propagandized yankees to organize anything, but there was Stop Our Ship and shit in the 70s. the individualism and the ineffectuality are very lib-brained
What would that have done? This guy is in the US Airforce, not the IDF. This isnt like Veitnam or Korea, or any of the other genocidal actions take by the US Military, because the US military isnt the one perpetuating this genocide, Israel is. Killing some low level Air Force officer in DC isnt going to do anything to help Palestinians.
Think about it: if he had killed another member of the Air Force "for Palestine" that would be incredible propaganda for Israel. It would have done nothing but create further fuel for American support for Israel.
As a purely hypothetical and academic discussion...
Soldiers going Postal and killing commanders in the US armed forces is a very different level of blowback to supporting Genocide than dealing with protesters in the streets. A certain level of protest and ill-will from the population is factored in to these decisions: losing career commanders is not. If you're going to go out and set an example for how to refuse to take part in an organization that aids a genocide, you may as well do as much damage as you possibly can. There's no moral duty to go easy on genociders, even if they're one degree of separation removed.
As for your argument about whether or not it would be twisted by the media - of course it would. But with a proper letter of intent drafted and mailed to multiple media outlets and unaffiliated journalists, at least some exposure to the true messaging could be achieved. This isn't an atmosphere of unilateral control over the media like was possible in the 80's and 90's, and people are more open to dissenting voices now than ever. There's already high profile examples of officials resigning that could be pointed to as well.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-education-official-resigns-over-bidens-israel-gaza-policy-2024-01-04/#:~:text=Josh%20Paul%2C%20a%20former%20State,%22blind%20support%22%20for%20Israel
It's not some fringe crank position to be anti-israel at this point. The resignation was almost 4 months ago. That there hasn't been any escalation of resistance is more surprising than anything. I genuinely think if you're in the armed forces and have decided you're willing to die for this moral issue, we're at a point where it's both morally and strategically viable to harm the structure as much as possible on the way out.
If there was an organized group of people in the military that could carry out a targetted strike against their superiors then sure id agree, but a single man isn't going to do much.
There's no moral argument against killing members of a genocidal fascist military, sure, but there is a realistic one and its that you cant just kill people by trying really hard. It takes effort and ability that may not be avaliable to an individual to actually effectively carry out an assassination. I think that since we so often talk about these things in the hypothetical (joking about fragging and stuff), it obfuscates the fact that it takes real material work to do these things properly, and getting caught before you can do anything is incredibly easy.
Covering yourself in gasoline and flicking a lighter is far far easier to carry out alone, even if the individual will to kill yourself in such a way is not present in most people.
Gosh darn it I'm glad someone said it before me. I'll admit to a bit of red-tinged fantasies myself, but until that moment when it's my choice to pull the trigger and end a humans life i don't know that i could.
We don't know what this guy's job was. For all we know about him he not only might he not have the training to kill another soldier, he might not have the will. Maybe he values life highly. I for one give him the benefit of the doubt cuz whatever his convictions were, he held them tightly and paid for them with force and will.
Difficult maybe, but doable. And again, we're talking about someone who has already chosen to forfeit their life in pursuit of resistance. I think suicide is, all considered, a less effective form of a resistance than other paths - but if it's the one someone has chosen, one may as well go the extra mile and raise the costs as much as possible. Even if it doesn't succeed entirely, any amount of additional cost beyond cleaning your body off a sidewalk is a loss to the death machine of US empire, and the credible threat of future people finding inspiration in the action/copy-cat attempts will have to be factored into decision making as well.
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Youre gonna call self immolation liberalism, then post idealistic nonsense like this? Yeah we can all wish our enemies are going to just suddenly wake up one day, realize theyre hitler, and off themselves and their cohorts. But thats not gonna fucking happen, so wake up and deal with reality as it exists.