They were just champing at the bit for an excuse to get more racist. I can't believe the utter heel turn with their border rhetoric

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1bauos4/biden_says_he_regrets_using_term_illegal_as_trump/?sort=controversial

  • CyborgMarx [any, any]
    ·
    4 months ago

    There is no content or coherence to the "colloquial" definition, the ideology we call liberalism has a history, a set of a priori assumptions of the world, a roster of multiple internal schools of thought (none of which mesh with the colloquial understanding), and most important an actually existing record of real world policies that define it's true function and scope in the world

    You can claim a million billion people think liberalism is sunshine and roses, that still wouldn't make it true

    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
      ·
      4 months ago

      You can claim a million billion people think liberalism is sunshine and roses, that still wouldn't make it true

      Words mean what people think they mean. The vast majority of Americans use "liberal" and "conservative" interchangeably with Democratic and Republican policies, so in that context (which is the context of the r/politics thread) "liberal" is fairly read as "aligned with Democrats." That's a valid definition because it's how most people actually use the word.

      Claiming that your preferred definition is the only real definition, and the hundreds of millions of people who use the most common definition are all wrong, is nonsensical and will get you nothing but endless semantic slapfights.

      • CyborgMarx [any, any]
        ·
        4 months ago

        Words mean what people think they mean.

        Yeah if those people had power, a political education and sustained control over the levers of knowledge production

        so in that context (which is the context of the r/politics thread) "liberal" is fairly read as "aligned with Democrats." That's a valid definition because it's how most people actually use the word.

        Except our non-hexbear friend asserted those liberals in that thread aren't liberals because they sound like "garden variety conservatives" but they're not (according to the colloquial definition), they're "democrat aligned" Biden supporters pissing and moaning about people upset over Biden's anti-immigration stance (oh look anti-immigration from the liberal dems, another violation of the vaunted colloquial definition)

        So that tells us not only were you not paying attention to what op was saying, but that the definition that you're holding up as the gold standard (because millions of American don't have a political education) can't even hold up in the thread you gave as an example cat-confused

        Which is why political education is important and colloquial understanding that isn't even colloquial is not

        • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
          ·
          4 months ago

          I'm not seeing many liberals in these comments. When I look at their comment histories they seem to be garden variety conservatives. The liberals I do see defending Biden are more doing the standard "Trump is worse, stop attacking Biden" which is shitty but not mask-off racism imo

          This is very plainly drawing a difference between "liberals defending Biden" and "garden variety conservatives."

          If you have examples of Biden supporters in that thread endorsing the racist term "illegals," citing those would have been infinitely more productive than pretending the common definition of "liberal" doesn't even exist.

          • CyborgMarx [any, any]
            ·
            edit-2
            4 months ago

            This is very plainly drawing a difference between "liberals defending Biden" and "garden variety conservatives."

            I'm well aware what they tried to do, I'm saying they failed because they don't know what liberalism is because they have a bullshit mangled colloquial understanding of it that doesn't accurately describe reality

            Aaaand he caved in to the hysterical activists. Wonderful. +10

            The ones that had a fit because he used a word. I'm guessing. +19

            Biden gets a ton of shit for this even though Trump uses Nazi rhetoric to discuss immigrants. +3

            "Biden appoligizes to murderer for being not politically correct, while Trump visits and helps the family of the victim mourn". Quite a great headline to garner support, makes Biden seem like a complete asshole that cares about being Politically correct over the death of an American.

            Calling the murderer an illegal shouldn’t be considered a mistake

            Biden just delivered an all-time state of the union address, and bozos from his own party are getting worked up about a word that most Americans are comfortable using, but pissed off the progressives. +8

            If Biden’s team was smart, they’d name a bill after her to control the border by hiring more agents and installing border surveillance in the hot spots. Let republicans shoot the bill down…again. I’m not a Trump supporter. I hate him. The border does need to be controlled better though. I’m not preaching hate. I’m just saying we all lock our doors and cars at night. It’s the same thing. We’re just trying to keep bad people out, not everyone. +6

            Nah bro these totally aren't Biden supporters, absolute "garden variety conservatives", lmao hey happened to the fuckin colloquial definition, I can't seem to find it?

            • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
              ·
              4 months ago

              Nah bro these totally aren't Biden supporters

              I'm not arguing about this. I'm saying you should have brought up this actual substantive stuff right away rather than posting multiple paragraphs about the definition of a word

              • NewLeaf
                hexagon
                ·
                4 months ago

                ...the original post was a link to the content. You shouldnt have commented unless you clicked the link to see what we were even talking about.

                • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  You don't have to know shit about the underlying post to point out that dogpiling someone for using the most common definition of "liberal" is a poor way to communicate with them.

                  I read the underlying post, anyway.

                  • NewLeaf
                    hexagon
                    ·
                    4 months ago

                    Just take the L.

                    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
                      ·
                      4 months ago

                      You can't break out "aren't we trying to learn here" on one hand and then drop reddit shit like this on the other

                      • NewLeaf
                        hexagon
                        ·
                        edit-2
                        4 months ago

                        Everyone else already made my point for me, and you have at least dodeca-ed down

                        If the pattern I've noticed on hexbear persists, we are about three more back and forths away from your mask slipping and you getting banned, so I'm just gonna leave it at this comment and call it a day.

                        • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
                          ·
                          4 months ago

                          Lmao what kind of horseshit is this? "You did not submit to my obviously superior intellect, so you must be some secret reactionary whose mask is just a hair from slipping?"

                          PIGPOOPBALLS

                          • NewLeaf
                            hexagon
                            ·
                            edit-2
                            4 months ago

                            Not even close, but go ahead and assume you know anything about me at all

                            • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
                              ·
                              edit-2
                              4 months ago

                              we are about three more back and forths away from your mask slipping and you getting banned

                              Lol

                              Haha nice edit, too

                              • NewLeaf
                                hexagon
                                ·
                                4 months ago

                                Yeah, I didn't feel like being a jerk after letting it breathe

      • Kaplya
        ·
        4 months ago

        Look, you’re not going to find any support here with this take.

        I once made a thread asking Hexbears to tone down their rhetoric so it’s more welcoming to the vast majority of the outside people, and 99% of the responses were a firm no.

        People here aren’t going to give up using the materialist definition of liberalism just to pander to the libs.

        • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 months ago

          I see the same thing happening -- it's a fast track to an ultraleftist dead end.

          It's also worth noting that recognizing what non-leftists mean when they speak is not pandering, but a prerequisite to effective communication. We're abandoning talking to people out of eagerness to dunk on anything that moves.

        • MayoPete [he/him, comrade/them]
          ·
          4 months ago

          This thread shows how we need more accessible, as in memes, political education for left-curious folks. This stuff has to meet people where they are if we ever hope to build a popular revolutionary movement.