I supported the uncommitted campaign. Biden is still better for Palestine than Trump, and you still have no viable path to a third option. The politics of outrage just drives people away.
You're just defining a tiny in-group, then putting everyone else in an out-group. There is no room for building alliances or cooperation because everyone else is just the enemy. It wouldn't even matter if we had rank choice voting, you would still be irrelevant.
You blinkered libs repeat this ad infinitum because (assuming you actually believe it) you've made the farce of red vs blue American political theatre your whole world. I don't view the world like that, users here in general don't, and most people aren't American voters.
But it also doesn't even stand up to scrutiny on its own merits if you assume everyone is an American electoral obsessed lib like yourself:
The Biden admin is committing genocide, factually and materially right now. The fact that another admin in all likelihood would is still less certain than the unshakable material reality of actual current events.
Given the evidence of the previous Trump presidency, there's every reason to believe that a Trump admin would be less competent and less functional, which could prove better for Palestine and America's victims.
Trump would actually receive opposition both politically and in terms of laundered public opinion from liberals like yourself, thr Democrats, and potentially the few diehard never-Trump Republicans. That would also be an improvement over an admin that skates by without real opposition and that you're insisting even those opposed to it have to offer support to.
Trump has historically been unpredictable on foreign policy and diplomacy with foreign leaders. He's more prone to shifting his position on the basis of grudges, flattery, social connections, hell, even being bought off potentially. When the certainty is continued, unlimited genocide, any uncertainly is an opportunity for improvement.
The whole fucking point of the uncommitted campaign is to leverage our support to force Biden to capitulate to our demands.
You aren't willing to do that. You are committed to Biden and thus undermining the uncommitted campaign, because you're telling Biden that he can do anything he wants and you will support him. You and every Blue No Matter Who like you are responsible for Biden not being responsive to demands from his electoral base until recently. They really thought they couldn't lose enough votes to matter and we can pressure him by making it clear that he is going to lose if he supports genocide. Already he has been moved on this issue and we can move him farther. He should know I'll vote for him if there's a permanent ceasefire, UNRWA funding, and an end to military support for Israel.
That's the viable third option - we force him to capitulate and end the genocide. We can do it. Why are you undermining us?
Biden and the rest of the establishment have no idea how many of those uncommitted votes will or won't vote for Biden in the general, and nothing I say has any effect on that.
Here is the comment I originally responded to:
Also, it’s great because the same people who said we could push him left are now mad because… we are trying to push him left
The only thing I'm saying is that Biden actually has been pushed left, and many of us who think Biden is preferable to Trump are absolutely in favor of continuing to push him left.
This is one of those Internet bubbles you keep hearing about. You folks have your little in-group, and everyone who doesn't line up exactly with the group is an outsider. That's exactly how you convince politicians that you aren't worth paying attention to. My state hasn't voted yet. Maybe I'll vote "uncommitted" like I planned, or maybe I get so fed up with this edgy nonsense that I vote Biden. That's not likely in my case, but this shit does drive people away. You are more concerned with maintaining your edgy rebel status than actually moving public opinion. I think winning on policy would be a disaster in your eyes because you would no longer be special.
or maybe I get so fed up with this edgy nonsense that I vote Biden.
"Do what I want or I'll eagerly cosign your genocide next" do you fucking hear yourself cracker
Literally threatening to support genocide because your fragile fucking feelings were hurt, you COLLABORATOR PIECE OF SHIT. I don't believe you were ever going to vote uncommitted from that singular fucking comment alone. You have no bonafides, you have no real beliefs beyond whatever gets you your treats, you are neither Malcolm X's Northern nor Southern dog-- but a new breed; a Midwestern dog. Servile to any genocidal wretch that wags your tail and offers you their table scraps.
You and everybody like you literally sicken me; because if I'm just unlucky and I have to die here, whoever comes next is gonna think I was with you people. Death to your optics, death to Amerika, death to Israel, death to NATO, death to the entire Five-Eyed Empire, until AFRICOM is collapsed, until the global subject-of-empire's chains are broken, until you lose the perch that you've been sitting so goddamn smug on.
If this is one of those narrow little internet bubbles that 'you keep hearing about' then the idea that your liberal tone policing bullshit would have a wide impact doesn't even make sense.
And speaking of bubbles, you've created one for yourself in which anything outside of voting against your beliefs and interests while promising not even to speak harshly of the people and things you claim to oppose is impossible and unacceptable. Doesn't seem like there's a lot of options or room for alternatives in your tight little bubble of reality there.
Never mind which, again, most people are not American voters.
Yes, Biden has been pushed by us, that's why he put forward a weak ceasefire resolution at the security council. We did that! That's an accomplishment of the uncommitted movement and the only thing I'm saying is that Biden still has to be pushed farther and that he can be if we stay committed to being uncommitted. It's clearly working and we don't need cynics like you undermining our message with Blue No Matter Whoism. This genocide can be stopped, and the only reason it might fail is because of people like you choosing to put vibes over politics.
I will vote for Biden if he capitulates. That's hardly edgy rebellion, that's just normal politics. We're doing politics. Why does that make you so mad?
If online discourse makes you so mad that you actually vote for genocide in the primaries you need to log off.
What did I say that was 100% liberal? There haven't even been any policy disagreements! This whole discussion has been about political strategy, not policy, and not economic philosophy.
It's in-group out-group dynamics. You think your insular bubble gets to own leftism, and everyone outside it is liberal at best.
You think your insular bubble gets to own leftism, and everyone outside it is liberal at best.
We objectively do. What policy you claim to espouse (because as I've elaborated on in an earlier comment, you are little more than a domesticated midwestern lapdog nuzzling the Oxfords of the democrat party at this point) is the same internationally-defined neoliberal austerity-and-murder horseshit that the truly civilized world has languished under for more than 50 years. The only thing left about you is the side of your body, and maybe what side of the bed you sleep on. You would cosign literal genocide if it kept the treat dispenser running.
All you need to be considered "left" by the abysmally-suboptimal standards of civics education in this shithole of a country, is lukewarm tolerance of queer folk and the ability to hide the most abhorrent anti-Blackness under a rock until you're behind the closed doors of your own home; and you think being a Third Wayer in Amerika of all fucking places is enough to claim you deserve fellowship. It'd be fuckin laughable if it wasn't so fractally wrong.
Whatever definition of 'leftism' you ascribe to would be such a watered down, non-descript, and half baked understanding at best, based off of what you have posted. Nobody on this forum claims to own leftism, but we sure as shit know that you are not a part of it, you genocidal lapdog dipshit.
I supported the uncommitted campaign. Biden is still better for Palestine than Trump, and you still have no viable path to a third option. The politics of outrage just drives people away.
You're just defining a tiny in-group, then putting everyone else in an out-group. There is no room for building alliances or cooperation because everyone else is just the enemy. It wouldn't even matter if we had rank choice voting, you would still be irrelevant.
You blinkered libs repeat this ad infinitum because (assuming you actually believe it) you've made the farce of red vs blue American political theatre your whole world. I don't view the world like that, users here in general don't, and most people aren't American voters.
But it also doesn't even stand up to scrutiny on its own merits if you assume everyone is an American electoral obsessed lib like yourself:
The Biden admin is committing genocide, factually and materially right now. The fact that another admin in all likelihood would is still less certain than the unshakable material reality of actual current events.
Given the evidence of the previous Trump presidency, there's every reason to believe that a Trump admin would be less competent and less functional, which could prove better for Palestine and America's victims.
Trump would actually receive opposition both politically and in terms of laundered public opinion from liberals like yourself, thr Democrats, and potentially the few diehard never-Trump Republicans. That would also be an improvement over an admin that skates by without real opposition and that you're insisting even those opposed to it have to offer support to.
Trump has historically been unpredictable on foreign policy and diplomacy with foreign leaders. He's more prone to shifting his position on the basis of grudges, flattery, social connections, hell, even being bought off potentially. When the certainty is continued, unlimited genocide, any uncertainly is an opportunity for improvement.
@Tinidril@midwest.social
You never replied to this. Would you like to now that Trump has called (for his own selfish reasons of course) for Israel to 'end their war in Gaza?'
The whole fucking point of the uncommitted campaign is to leverage our support to force Biden to capitulate to our demands.
You aren't willing to do that. You are committed to Biden and thus undermining the uncommitted campaign, because you're telling Biden that he can do anything he wants and you will support him. You and every Blue No Matter Who like you are responsible for Biden not being responsive to demands from his electoral base until recently. They really thought they couldn't lose enough votes to matter and we can pressure him by making it clear that he is going to lose if he supports genocide. Already he has been moved on this issue and we can move him farther. He should know I'll vote for him if there's a permanent ceasefire, UNRWA funding, and an end to military support for Israel.
That's the viable third option - we force him to capitulate and end the genocide. We can do it. Why are you undermining us?
Biden and the rest of the establishment have no idea how many of those uncommitted votes will or won't vote for Biden in the general, and nothing I say has any effect on that.
Here is the comment I originally responded to:
The only thing I'm saying is that Biden actually has been pushed left, and many of us who think Biden is preferable to Trump are absolutely in favor of continuing to push him left.
This is one of those Internet bubbles you keep hearing about. You folks have your little in-group, and everyone who doesn't line up exactly with the group is an outsider. That's exactly how you convince politicians that you aren't worth paying attention to. My state hasn't voted yet. Maybe I'll vote "uncommitted" like I planned, or maybe I get so fed up with this edgy nonsense that I vote Biden. That's not likely in my case, but this shit does drive people away. You are more concerned with maintaining your edgy rebel status than actually moving public opinion. I think winning on policy would be a disaster in your eyes because you would no longer be special.
"Do what I want or I'll eagerly cosign your genocide next" do you fucking hear yourself cracker
Literally threatening to support genocide because your fragile fucking feelings were hurt, you COLLABORATOR PIECE OF SHIT. I don't believe you were ever going to vote uncommitted from that singular fucking comment alone. You have no bonafides, you have no real beliefs beyond whatever gets you your treats, you are neither Malcolm X's Northern nor Southern dog-- but a new breed; a Midwestern dog. Servile to any genocidal wretch that wags your tail and offers you their table scraps.
You and everybody like you literally sicken me; because if I'm just unlucky and I have to die here, whoever comes next is gonna think I was with you people. Death to your optics, death to Amerika, death to Israel, death to NATO, death to the entire Five-Eyed Empire, until AFRICOM is collapsed, until the global subject-of-empire's chains are broken, until you lose the perch that you've been sitting so goddamn smug on.
You're contradicting yourself.
If this is one of those narrow little internet bubbles that 'you keep hearing about' then the idea that your liberal tone policing bullshit would have a wide impact doesn't even make sense.
And speaking of bubbles, you've created one for yourself in which anything outside of voting against your beliefs and interests while promising not even to speak harshly of the people and things you claim to oppose is impossible and unacceptable. Doesn't seem like there's a lot of options or room for alternatives in your tight little bubble of reality there.
Never mind which, again, most people are not American voters.
Yes, Biden has been pushed by us, that's why he put forward a weak ceasefire resolution at the security council. We did that! That's an accomplishment of the uncommitted movement and the only thing I'm saying is that Biden still has to be pushed farther and that he can be if we stay committed to being uncommitted. It's clearly working and we don't need cynics like you undermining our message with Blue No Matter Whoism. This genocide can be stopped, and the only reason it might fail is because of people like you choosing to put vibes over politics.
I will vote for Biden if he capitulates. That's hardly edgy rebellion, that's just normal politics. We're doing politics. Why does that make you so mad?
If online discourse makes you so mad that you actually vote for genocide in the primaries you need to log off.
deleted by creator
Then why do you sound 100% like a liberal? I don't get it.
What did I say that was 100% liberal? There haven't even been any policy disagreements! This whole discussion has been about political strategy, not policy, and not economic philosophy.
It's in-group out-group dynamics. You think your insular bubble gets to own leftism, and everyone outside it is liberal at best.
If you're telling us to vote for Genocide Joe then you're a liberal
We objectively do. What policy you claim to espouse (because as I've elaborated on in an earlier comment, you are little more than a domesticated midwestern lapdog nuzzling the Oxfords of the democrat party at this point) is the same internationally-defined neoliberal austerity-and-murder horseshit that the truly civilized world has languished under for more than 50 years. The only thing left about you is the side of your body, and maybe what side of the bed you sleep on. You would cosign literal genocide if it kept the treat dispenser running.
All you need to be considered "left" by the abysmally-suboptimal standards of civics education in this shithole of a country, is lukewarm tolerance of queer folk and the ability to hide the most abhorrent anti-Blackness under a rock until you're behind the closed doors of your own home; and you think being a Third Wayer in Amerika of all fucking places is enough to claim you deserve fellowship. It'd be fuckin laughable if it wasn't so fractally wrong.
Yes. Death to AmeriKKKa, death to “Israel,” and death to NATO. This is leftism.
Whatever definition of 'leftism' you ascribe to would be such a watered down, non-descript, and half baked understanding at best, based off of what you have posted. Nobody on this forum claims to own leftism, but we sure as shit know that you are not a part of it, you genocidal lapdog dipshit.