I've thought about joining DSA a few times just to connect with new people but then I see shit like this and don't want my money paying dues to bullshit like this
I am technically still a UFCW member and have seen firsthand how useless they are. I haven't looked much into PSL but maybe they might have something nearby.
Hopeless is the word. I'm feeling very despondent lately and if not for places like this community I'd feel like my perceptions of the world are completely insane and I'd probably have given up by now.
I really have just come to expect nothing good to happen in my life and any efforts I make to improve it will be so counterproductive it's better to do nothing
unions are part of the superstructure and as such class struggle can (and has to) only be struggled within them in proportion to the level of class struggle flowing around and through them. definitely get into local organizing every field needs work and organizer development!
I really have just come to expect nothing good to happen in my life and any efforts I make to improve it will be so counterproductive it's better to do nothing
if nothing good is gonna happen in your own life then you can at least do some good for others by dedicating yourself to serving the people. doesn't need to be under the auspices of a particular organisation, just go engage with the masses somehow in a positive way and keep reading revolutionary thinkers and try to apply what they say to what you see in front of you. nihilism and defeatism isn't good enough comrade, people are out there being massacred by our ruling classes and they don't get the option to embrace nihilism.
It is probably best with an organization or collective and there are many good leftist orgs albeit too scattered; it is best not to encourage individualistic action in a country that already encourages individualism as it is.
you can work with your comrades who are within parties without yourself being involved in any of those parties, not belonging to an org doesn't mean working alone. this is how I choose to organise at present, as i don't see that belonging to any of the orgs available to me would augment my own ability to do the work - instead they would simply restrict my ability to do creative political work in favour of dedication to a particular, flawed line or method. your view that there are "many good leftist orgs" shies away from necessary criticisms of the issues holding those orgs back in favour of a "it's all good!" attitude.
basically, i aim to be a "cadre in lieu of a party" for now, focusing my efforts on pragmatically working for revolutionary goals than on reproducing some sect that has been stuck in its ways for years and will likely never get the masses behind it
dogshit supporters of the demoncrats since the mid 20th century, also feds
PSL
tailist sect who like to try and co-opt movements without doing the political work necessary to actually lead and organise them. also not fully sure but don't they have an iffy line regarding queer ppl
FRSO
not as bad as the first two but they make a pretty crucial mistake in saying that the US is no longer a settler-colony, IIRC
if that's the case then maybe i should reassess my view on them
all I've seen PSL doing is showing up to marches with placards but then running away as soon as things get spicy, and in general failing to actually engage with the masses and determine a revolutionary programme that will win their support. they had a strong presence in the 2020 uprisings and a strong presence in the present Palestine solidarity movement but I see non-communist organisers in those movements often critiquing PSL's participation in them (perhaps, admittedly, the PSL organisers who did do this effectively back in 2020 were the ones who got murdered by the pigs)
and forgive me if i'm wrong but didn't the CPUSA say that people should vote Biden in 2020 as a "vote against fascism" or something. i'm also not gonna suggest the CPUSA is entirely fed operated but there is a long history of successful infiltration there.
overall i'm not saying that none of these sects have any value or that they don't have a lot of decent communists involved, but none of them are exactly the American Bolsheviks, and only the FRSO seems willing to admit that it's not The Party in any way shape or form at present.
FRSO are good comrades and they have been growing by leaps and bounds and even helped get a few legislation passed in Chicago, despite their "small" size.
I've worked with PSL comrades. They're fine. Keep in mind that it depends on the group.
CPUSA's Twitter account said something to that effect (which did not specify Biden), but we are barred from supporting or endorsing candidates outside of our own and even had a schism with Sam Webb back in 2014 when he tried to turn CPUSA into a Dem group. Sam Webb lost and the rest of the Nat'l Committee won. It also may depend on the specific part of the CPUSA and, keep in mind, CPUSA has had at times internal disagreements and differing opinions. But in general, since 2014 and especially since 2019, things have been better, imho.
Also, they're not "sects." They're not religious groups. We need to stop viewing ML groups like this. We're scientific socialists. We shouldn't be castigating each other, especially those that are out there on the streets fighting oppression, yeah? Which is why I don't speak of them that way.
Libs but also not just libs. And it's a common enough criticism that I think they must have a couple things backwards internally when it comes to coalition building and organizing competencies.
I can also vouch for this being an accurate criticism in my current location. I helped out with a recent action they organized and it was straight-up unsafe in a way that was easily preventable and they failed to have seemingly any plan for training people on what to do before, during, or after the action.
But don't forget that the left is small in the US and still learning. PSL can and likely will improve through experience and comrades here can be part of that.
Anything I could do to prove I was in or affiliated with CPUSA is doxxable information, I'm not the same kind of person who posts about how he's in the Northern Virginia CPUSA on their Lemmy account which also has god knows what other identifiable information
My lackings in knowledge are areas which were not clarified for me appropriately while I tried to organize with CPUSA, right now I'm working with PSL because they do clarify these things and the people on the ground not only have more achievable goals and timeframes but are more widely connected in the local community. I say branch because that's the lingo PSL uses, and I assumed that it simply wasn't clarified for me while I was in CPUSA but clearly I'm not correct on that point, for what it matters.
I'm not anti-CPUSA by any means, I'm an ML who merely wishes for there to be a sizable socialist movement in the US by whatever means; however my experience with CPUSA outside of major city centers like DC and NYC though was severely dissapointing and I advise others to join whatever ML group is largest in their area or work with another ML org if there is no ML group in their area.
If CPUSA is an ML party and presumably, practices democratic centralism, can I ask why those CPUSA members in local branch has not been purged?
I'm not going to doxx them but their local branch only has ~4 members (and thus, have a complete control over that branch...) but it's in a cultural major and very politically engaged metropolitan US city so I assume they should be aware of their existence
Not necessarily attacking the CPUSA, but documents are meaningless without enforcing them. According the multiple documents the US should be doing a LOT of things different.
Yeah, I've noticed that some people speak highly of you all. I've even heard that the Socialist Party has been hanging in there as well (which now mostly has communists now, I think).
Hey i justed wanted to let you know that even though I'm not part of CPUSA and through years of lurking I've also noticed you are one of the few, if not the one, who gives the "other side of the story", wrt them, I still always appreciate and enjoy your comments and I am sorry if you feel lonely or isolated from others here. I'm sure I'm not the only one, either, who appreciates your presence here. Party differences aside. Maybe I'm being too sappy, just wanted to send good vibes to you
Why would a sentiment of CPUSA being liberal form on Reddit but not on Twitter or Instagram? Reddit trends towards being overly sympathetic to liberalism, not rejecting it too much
Also, it's common for certain subcultures to be bisected or divided depending on the community.
After chapo was destroyed and /r/communisim was taken over by Maoists, lots of people moved to Twitter and that's where lots of CPUSA members set up their social media accounts; communist Reddit hasnt' changed much compared to communist Insta and communist Twitter.
There are also many smaller orgs that do good work and are commie but they're regional or city-specific.
A good question to ask when shopping for an org is to ask who is organizing? Not just attending an action, but doing real world organizing. Focus on those groups in your area.
Also make sure that you're comfortable leaving or disagreeing with your org at all times. If something goes south, you want the option of supporting the right side. The stuff with PSL you mention is what happens when comrades make bad decisions in an attempt to save face and protect each other and would've been avoided if the chapters in question had discipline.
You can join DSA without dues. But obviously do so with a plan and reasonable goals of what you want to get out of it because overall it's an incoherent reformist group that spends most of its time fighting about or talking about things like this. Don't expect too much out of it and it can be a fine first step to getting involved.
You could also just join a different and better group. See who's organizing local pro-Palestine actions, maybe?
There's a lot of baby leftists, new ex-Democrats, and people that just don't have a deep theoretical backing joining DSA. It's an excellent group to join and have a real shot at influencing the political line, making sure actions your chapter takes are meaningful, and actually advance Socialism. YMMV based on what chapters are nearby.
There's been multiple threads already, yeah.
I've thought about joining DSA a few times just to connect with new people but then I see shit like this and don't want my money paying dues to bullshit like this
Literally more damaging than doing nothing
There are at least three ML parties in the United States:
FRSO
CPUSA
PSL
just saying: your options are open and they have been growing since the year 2020.
If not, you can check Facebook and Instagram since they're good for finding orgs in your area, various leftist groups and the like.
Barring that, there are AFL-CIO unions, independent labor unions, and the IWW.
Like I said, there are options.
Just thought I'd tell you all this in case you were feeling hopeless or distraught.
I agree that the DSA is... not my first pick. I've defended them, but the "caucus system" is something I don't agree with.
(I'm apart of CPUSA but I want to say that I'm formulating this post as impartially as I can.)
I am technically still a UFCW member and have seen firsthand how useless they are. I haven't looked much into PSL but maybe they might have something nearby.
Hopeless is the word. I'm feeling very despondent lately and if not for places like this community I'd feel like my perceptions of the world are completely insane and I'd probably have given up by now.
I really have just come to expect nothing good to happen in my life and any efforts I make to improve it will be so counterproductive it's better to do nothing
unions are part of the superstructure and as such class struggle can (and has to) only be struggled within them in proportion to the level of class struggle flowing around and through them. definitely get into local organizing every field needs work and organizer development!
Unions are not apart of the state, if that's what you're trying to say.
They're only as good as they're membership and it may depend on the type of union.
Superstructure
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure
Okay, so you're using it correctly. Good.
Edit: But please ditch relying on Wikipedia. Thank you.
if nothing good is gonna happen in your own life then you can at least do some good for others by dedicating yourself to serving the people. doesn't need to be under the auspices of a particular organisation, just go engage with the masses somehow in a positive way and keep reading revolutionary thinkers and try to apply what they say to what you see in front of you. nihilism and defeatism isn't good enough comrade, people are out there being massacred by our ruling classes and they don't get the option to embrace nihilism.
It is probably best with an organization or collective and there are many good leftist orgs albeit too scattered; it is best not to encourage individualistic action in a country that already encourages individualism as it is.
you can work with your comrades who are within parties without yourself being involved in any of those parties, not belonging to an org doesn't mean working alone. this is how I choose to organise at present, as i don't see that belonging to any of the orgs available to me would augment my own ability to do the work - instead they would simply restrict my ability to do creative political work in favour of dedication to a particular, flawed line or method. your view that there are "many good leftist orgs" shies away from necessary criticisms of the issues holding those orgs back in favour of a "it's all good!" attitude.
basically, i aim to be a "cadre in lieu of a party" for now, focusing my efforts on pragmatically working for revolutionary goals than on reproducing some sect that has been stuck in its ways for years and will likely never get the masses behind it
Very well. I think it's good to work with a network of people, but I guess you're already doing that. I'll leave you to it, comrade.
It may depend on the union you're in, at the end of the day.
dogshit supporters of the demoncrats since the mid 20th century, also feds
tailist sect who like to try and co-opt movements without doing the political work necessary to actually lead and organise them. also not fully sure but don't they have an iffy line regarding queer ppl
not as bad as the first two but they make a pretty crucial mistake in saying that the US is no longer a settler-colony, IIRC
FRSO does not officially believe that last part.
PSL are not tailist
Also, we at CPUSA are not feds or supporters of Democrats.
if that's the case then maybe i should reassess my view on them
all I've seen PSL doing is showing up to marches with placards but then running away as soon as things get spicy, and in general failing to actually engage with the masses and determine a revolutionary programme that will win their support. they had a strong presence in the 2020 uprisings and a strong presence in the present Palestine solidarity movement but I see non-communist organisers in those movements often critiquing PSL's participation in them (perhaps, admittedly, the PSL organisers who did do this effectively back in 2020 were the ones who got murdered by the pigs)
and forgive me if i'm wrong but didn't the CPUSA say that people should vote Biden in 2020 as a "vote against fascism" or something. i'm also not gonna suggest the CPUSA is entirely fed operated but there is a long history of successful infiltration there.
overall i'm not saying that none of these sects have any value or that they don't have a lot of decent communists involved, but none of them are exactly the American Bolsheviks, and only the FRSO seems willing to admit that it's not The Party in any way shape or form at present.
FRSO are good comrades and they have been growing by leaps and bounds and even helped get a few legislation passed in Chicago, despite their "small" size.
I've worked with PSL comrades. They're fine. Keep in mind that it depends on the group.
CPUSA's Twitter account said something to that effect (which did not specify Biden), but we are barred from supporting or endorsing candidates outside of our own and even had a schism with Sam Webb back in 2014 when he tried to turn CPUSA into a Dem group. Sam Webb lost and the rest of the Nat'l Committee won. It also may depend on the specific part of the CPUSA and, keep in mind, CPUSA has had at times internal disagreements and differing opinions. But in general, since 2014 and especially since 2019, things have been better, imho.
Also, they're not "sects." They're not religious groups. We need to stop viewing ML groups like this. We're scientific socialists. We shouldn't be castigating each other, especially those that are out there on the streets fighting oppression, yeah? Which is why I don't speak of them that way.
So libs?
Libs but also not just libs. And it's a common enough criticism that I think they must have a couple things backwards internally when it comes to coalition building and organizing competencies.
I can also vouch for this being an accurate criticism in my current location. I helped out with a recent action they organized and it was straight-up unsafe in a way that was easily preventable and they failed to have seemingly any plan for training people on what to do before, during, or after the action.
But don't forget that the left is small in the US and still learning. PSL can and likely will improve through experience and comrades here can be part of that.
CPUSA does not classify as any Marxist party
They have no international solidarity and I've met multiple prominent CPUSA members who vocally support reformism and the police state
What type of party is it when leaders can say stuff like this and not get purged?
At least DSA doesn't pretend to be anything they're not and still accomplish more material good than CPUSA lol
This is why I moved to build a PSL branch in my area instead of a CPUSA branch
We don't have "branches;" we have districts.
What's the difference? Genuine question, I don't live in the US
Word choice and word choice alone. It's entirely meaningless.
The difference is that we have intermediary groups between the clubs; we don't have a branch system and a district leadership covers a wider area.
Also, I'm doubtful that the person is that familiar with CPUSA and I'm airing that doubt.
Anything I could do to prove I was in or affiliated with CPUSA is doxxable information, I'm not the same kind of person who posts about how he's in the Northern Virginia CPUSA on their Lemmy account which also has god knows what other identifiable information
My lackings in knowledge are areas which were not clarified for me appropriately while I tried to organize with CPUSA, right now I'm working with PSL because they do clarify these things and the people on the ground not only have more achievable goals and timeframes but are more widely connected in the local community. I say branch because that's the lingo PSL uses, and I assumed that it simply wasn't clarified for me while I was in CPUSA but clearly I'm not correct on that point, for what it matters.
I'm not anti-CPUSA by any means, I'm an ML who merely wishes for there to be a sizable socialist movement in the US by whatever means; however my experience with CPUSA outside of major city centers like DC and NYC though was severely dissapointing and I advise others to join whatever ML group is largest in their area or work with another ML org if there is no ML group in their area.
The difference is that we have intermediary groups between the clubs; we don't have a branch system and a district leadership covers a wider area.
Actually, the CPUSA has met several times with the Communist Party of China.
Also, we support prison and police abolition.
If CPUSA is an ML party and presumably, practices democratic centralism, can I ask why those CPUSA members in local branch has not been purged?
I'm not going to doxx them but their local branch only has ~4 members (and thus, have a complete control over that branch...) but it's in a cultural major and very politically engaged metropolitan US city so I assume they should be aware of their existence
CPUSA chapters being small, doing semi-random things, and supporting Dems is definitely a thing. They seem to vary wildly across chapters.
We don't expel members based on hearsay.
Yes, we practice DemCent.
Yes, CPUSA is an ML org.
No, we do not have "branches." We have districts and then clubs and sometimes even smaller collectives.
Hmmmmm
Please specify your edits or otherwise you may come off as "edit trolling."
I just changed pronouns for more anonymity
Well, it seems that the message is bigger, but fine, I will take your word for it, I suppose.
Right, and more details on how important the city that their district/club/collective are in is but the main substance is exactly the same
We do mutual aid in my district.
Also, CPUSA delegations have met with the Communist Party of Cuba and have had no incidents.
DSA has had these incidents though.
Actually, CPUSA is a Marxist-Leninist party, per its constitution, party program, and several documents.
Not necessarily attacking the CPUSA, but documents are meaningless without enforcing them. According the multiple documents the US should be doing a LOT of things different.
We enforce them and even teach Marxism-Leninism.
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Yeah, I've noticed that some people speak highly of you all. I've even heard that the Socialist Party has been hanging in there as well (which now mostly has communists now, I think).
FRSO is technically a pre-party formation, but yea they are a ML organization focusing on building a working class party
And CPUSA is also an ML party.
FRSO is a little Maoist but that's not a flaw imo.
i like how i can tell that youre actually an organizer when i see your posts on here lmao
literally all I’ve ever seen on this site until now is how garbage CPUSA is and how assimilated it’s become.
PSL and FRSO definitely have promise, though PSL specifically has some weird shit going on with SA accusations
That's because much of this website (Hexbear) hails from Reddit.
On Twitter and, I guess, Instagram, it's much more positive and I'm pretty much a regular on "CPUSA twitter" or whatever we call ourselves.
Unfortunately, I'm the only CPUSA member I know here and so I'm the only one giving "the other side of the story," so to speak.
It's kinda lonely, ngl
Hey i justed wanted to let you know that even though I'm not part of CPUSA and through years of lurking I've also noticed you are one of the few, if not the one, who gives the "other side of the story", wrt them, I still always appreciate and enjoy your comments and I am sorry if you feel lonely or isolated from others here. I'm sure I'm not the only one, either, who appreciates your presence here. Party differences aside. Maybe I'm being too sappy, just wanted to send good vibes to you
thank you!
Why would a sentiment of CPUSA being liberal form on Reddit but not on Twitter or Instagram? Reddit trends towards being overly sympathetic to liberalism, not rejecting it too much
Too white, imho.
Also, it's common for certain subcultures to be bisected or divided depending on the community.
After chapo was destroyed and /r/communisim was taken over by Maoists, lots of people moved to Twitter and that's where lots of CPUSA members set up their social media accounts; communist Reddit hasnt' changed much compared to communist Insta and communist Twitter.
There are also many smaller orgs that do good work and are commie but they're regional or city-specific.
A good question to ask when shopping for an org is to ask who is organizing? Not just attending an action, but doing real world organizing. Focus on those groups in your area.
Also make sure that you're comfortable leaving or disagreeing with your org at all times. If something goes south, you want the option of supporting the right side. The stuff with PSL you mention is what happens when comrades make bad decisions in an attempt to save face and protect each other and would've been avoided if the chapters in question had discipline.
I don't know where you are but I hear mixed things about DSA.
My experience with the DSA in my area makes them laughable at best. This kinda shit from their members or cacuses makes total sense in my experience.
Los Angeles area which despite what people say as far as I can tell is packed to the fucking gills with CHUDs and unscratched liberals
What do people say, that LA is packed with Communists? Haha
I don't know LA DSA but I wouldn't place great hope in them either.
You can join DSA without dues. But obviously do so with a plan and reasonable goals of what you want to get out of it because overall it's an incoherent reformist group that spends most of its time fighting about or talking about things like this. Don't expect too much out of it and it can be a fine first step to getting involved.
You could also just join a different and better group. See who's organizing local pro-Palestine actions, maybe?
There's a lot of baby leftists, new ex-Democrats, and people that just don't have a deep theoretical backing joining DSA. It's an excellent group to join and have a real shot at influencing the political line, making sure actions your chapter takes are meaningful, and actually advance Socialism. YMMV based on what chapters are nearby.
If you personally have a ton of patience and organizing/manipulation skills, yes. Or if you have a core group of people to work with already.
Without those you'll most likely be one correct person getting dismissed by many wrong people.