HAVANA (AP) — Four Russian warships, including a nuclear-powered submarine, will arrive in Havana next week, Cuban officials said Thursday, citing “historically friendly relations”…
You know what's gonna improve Russia, China, Syria, Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, Palestine, North Korea, and all the other places liberals hate? Being pillaged by American and western European capitalists (in the case of Russia, being pillaged again). That definitely won't create the type of crisis that's perfect for promoting fascism.
You're right, if you're worried about fascism you should definitely oppose an alliance between Russia and Cuba.
Less sarcastically, I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember seeing what the west did to the people of the Soviet Union. I know what they're up to and the people of Russia, regardless of they're government, do not deserve to go through that again. This is a world the US made, not Russia. If you don't like capitalist restoration Russia you seriously need to ask if anything else is realistically possible in a world where they have to coexist with the US.
I'm learning that this place will excuse anything, including the violent suppression of communist by fascist movements and the US state department, as long as they can own the libs on the internet.
The Russian state did not have to turn out this way. This was not an inevitability. It took work and years and years of effort by the shittiest human being imaginable to make it the way it is now. It is not excusable to spend 30 years suppressing workers and building yourself into exactly what the US wants you to be because the US has a lot of power to make communism difficult. If the Cubans right now gave up on the workers movement and embraced anti communism, neoliberal capitalism and reintroduced limits on minority rights, that would be a tremendous loss, not some kind of inevitable thing we should just shrug off because "well it's easier to do that and you don't want them to face what they did when the US was more actively suppressing them do you".
If you aren't going to engage with what we're saying regarding the necessity of what the Cuban government is doing, or even reckon with the historical realities of why Russia is the way it is, perhaps you would at least like to tell us what alternatives you see. Recall again this is all in the context of a world domimated by a hegemonic hyper-militarized state with nearly-unmitigated strike capacity that has proven itself eminently hostile to both governments.
I think there's a side in this discussion not reckoning with the historical reality of what Russia is, and it isn't me. It really, really, really isn't me.
If you think the presence of Russia in a place will stop the US from interfering and trying to overthrow or remove that regime, you have not been following along. A Russian ship isn't going to stop the US from embargoing them, it's not going to stop them from trying to overthrow the country if they want to. Russian troops or deals with Russia haven't stopped the US from doing so with any other latin american countries in the last decade.
I don't presume to know or be able to accurately strategize for the perfect thing to do. I don't even necessarily oppose whatever Cuba is doing, since I don't know what Cuba is planning against. I just know that relying on Russia has proven to not work, and I don't like their government. If the Cubans find this to be the best option that's obviously their choice, but I still won't critically support comrade hitler.
See, this is what it really comes down to, every time. You by your own admission have no idea where else Cuba might procure the things it needs to survive, but partnering with the Russians is verboten because you personally find it distasteful, regardless of the fact that no other willing assistance is forthcoming.
So you don’t like this move purely because of Russia? I agree that Russia is not the nation we would want it to be right now, but it’s hard to argue they are 100% bad when they’ve been fighting nato the last two years. Not to mention objectively speaking Putin has been dealing with the Russian oligarchs his entire career that were created by the west. It’s only since the war in Ukraine that Russia has had any real hold of their economy since 1991. I think you need some historical perspective on this because you sound exactly the same as any western liberal.
So you don’t like this move purely because of Russia?
I don't know whether to support the move, I don't like the optics of speaking of your warm relations with a fascist regime, and I think it is generally a mistake to trust a fascist regime with your security.
I think you need some historical perspective on this because you sound exactly the same as any western liberal.
Hey you know who said pretty much the same about Putin dealing with the oligarchs and not being so bad and actually their government is good and cool now?
The obama state department before the Syrian civil war.
I think the ones lacking historical perpective isn't me., I think it's you guys. And given the immutable fact that I am right (always) and that I'm not the one in agreement with the US state department back when it wanted to have good Russian relations, I'm pretty confident in saying so.
Nobody's telling you not to argue for your point of view here, but this "I'm always right" bit doesn't make you sound confident, it makes you sound like a smug prick
There's Several People In This Thread Have Taken The Time To Argue Their Viewpoint Clearly And Also Gone Thru Your Arguments
No. There are two people who have done anything approaching that. One I'm having a quite civil discussion about the definition of fascism with, and one is frothing about Robert Paxton.
I should also say that I did not lie about robert paxton, as proven by accurately describing things robert paxton said, while the other guy was just flat out wrong. Although at least while being wrong he managed to cite an article (Although he seems to think it cleared the movement around Trump, which it clearly doesn't).
It seems, to me (And I am correct), that you have decided that I am wrong prima facie and therefore even just posting a jackoff emote counts as a good argument, while me going through how a thing fits within a definition that I describe doesn't.
No. There are two people who have done anything approaching that. One I'm having a quite civil discussion about the definition of fascism with, and one is frothing about Robert Paxton.
you mean the conversation where you were wrong about robert paxton
Hey you know who said pretty much the same about Putin dealing with the oligarchs and not being so bad and actually their government is good and cool now?
I’m gonna need some proof on this because I’ve never seen or heard such a thing. Not to mention Putin was not able to fully deal with the Russian oligarchs (WHO HAD CONNECTIONS TO WESTERN POWERS) until the US sanctioned them.
And given the immutable fact that I am right (always)
Honest question from a non-communist, based on your reply here. Does one need to support Putin to be a Marxist?
In a word, no. In a few more words, support for Russia (not Putin, as historical materialists don’t subscribe to great man theory) is only a partial, temporary, tactical one, in the context of imperialist liberation. Russia is still a capitalist state, though, so it’s a two stage strategy: first liberate colonized bourgeois states from colonizer states, and second revolution within those liberated bourgeois states.
Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers. This occurred during Putin’s administration, which is why he is especially hated by the US. So now the support for Russia is in the context of keeping the colonizers from recolonizing it, and supporting Russia to the extent that it helps other states liberate themselves. But Russia isn’t trying to “liberate” Ukraine, at least not all of Ukraine. It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas, and it’s trying to resolve the imperialist military expansion at its border.
I’m learning that this place will excuse anything, including the violent suppression of communist by fascist movements and the US state department, as long as they can own the libs on the internet.
Ask me how I know you're going to make a post that sums up to this in like two thousand words, with shittily-cited quotations and at least one outright plagiarization, to either lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, or lemmy.world the minute you eventually catch your ban from this fed.
I'd like to hope it's just like. Some unmedicated ish, and that they'll come back copacetic on a new account, 'cause I was here to see it and don't really get how that's possible, like-- liberals aren't typically that patient about dropping a mask; and that whole bullshit could've been avoided if they'd just shut the fuck up, accepted the critique for bearing western water, and actually stopped to think about the asinine fuckshit they were saying.
This whole thread has been most garbage take I’ve ever seen a Hexbear user account of any significant vintage make. It’s like you have almost no understanding of imperialism/colonialism or of “critical support” for bourgeois nationalist movements against them. Almost everyone here disagrees with you, as do many people of the Global South, who also align with and significantly support Russia against the imperial core.
This whole thread has been most garbage take I’ve ever seen a Hexbear user account of any significant vintage make.
bud you should've seen the wild shit that's been said here in the past 4 years, this is somewhat mild in comparison. Like slightly underripe jalapeño spicy.
See, I keep most people who shill for CPUSA blocked based on having grown sick of arguments over that org's predilection for tailism and how preachy about assimilationism some of its Black cadre have been-- what the hell's been going on this time?
Oh jesus fucking christ not even ten comments down and I can tell this is gonna be some hot dogwater, thanks for keeping me in the loop tho
"I understand others might disagree, but we gained a few new members upon that speech, just by it alone."
Mf got coons, minstrels, uncle Toms, and other assorted waterbearers for cracker genocide and started two-steppin like his gang of collaborators did shit smfh 🙄 Now I think about it you right; I HAVE argued with him before and he was JUST as obstinate then
All true statements made by some sort of genius.
Half the posts here have just been calling me an idiot, and I am not going to be shamed into falling in line. Therefore, "I'm right and you're wrong".
Are we doing that thing where we pretend the Soviet union is still around and Russia isn't a fascist oligarchy squatting on its corpse?
Are you doing the liberal thing where you pretend a state becomes fascist when you hate it enough?
Oh we are, ok.
You know what's gonna improve Russia, China, Syria, Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, Palestine, North Korea, and all the other places liberals hate? Being pillaged by American and western European capitalists (in the case of Russia, being pillaged again). That definitely won't create the type of crisis that's perfect for promoting fascism.
You're right, if you're worried about fascism you should definitely oppose an alliance between Russia and Cuba.
Less sarcastically, I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember seeing what the west did to the people of the Soviet Union. I know what they're up to and the people of Russia, regardless of they're government, do not deserve to go through that again. This is a world the US made, not Russia. If you don't like capitalist restoration Russia you seriously need to ask if anything else is realistically possible in a world where they have to coexist with the US.
I'm learning that this place will excuse anything, including the violent suppression of communist by fascist movements and the US state department, as long as they can own the libs on the internet.
The Russian state did not have to turn out this way. This was not an inevitability. It took work and years and years of effort by the shittiest human being imaginable to make it the way it is now. It is not excusable to spend 30 years suppressing workers and building yourself into exactly what the US wants you to be because the US has a lot of power to make communism difficult. If the Cubans right now gave up on the workers movement and embraced anti communism, neoliberal capitalism and reintroduced limits on minority rights, that would be a tremendous loss, not some kind of inevitable thing we should just shrug off because "well it's easier to do that and you don't want them to face what they did when the US was more actively suppressing them do you".
Is this a gpt post where the bot is prompted to be an ultra but always reach the conclusion the CIA wants
No I'm just right and that makes you mad
If you aren't going to engage with what we're saying regarding the necessity of what the Cuban government is doing, or even reckon with the historical realities of why Russia is the way it is, perhaps you would at least like to tell us what alternatives you see. Recall again this is all in the context of a world domimated by a hegemonic hyper-militarized state with nearly-unmitigated strike capacity that has proven itself eminently hostile to both governments.
I think there's a side in this discussion not reckoning with the historical reality of what Russia is, and it isn't me. It really, really, really isn't me.
If you think the presence of Russia in a place will stop the US from interfering and trying to overthrow or remove that regime, you have not been following along. A Russian ship isn't going to stop the US from embargoing them, it's not going to stop them from trying to overthrow the country if they want to. Russian troops or deals with Russia haven't stopped the US from doing so with any other latin american countries in the last decade.
I don't presume to know or be able to accurately strategize for the perfect thing to do. I don't even necessarily oppose whatever Cuba is doing, since I don't know what Cuba is planning against. I just know that relying on Russia has proven to not work, and I don't like their government. If the Cubans find this to be the best option that's obviously their choice, but I still won't critically support comrade hitler.
See, this is what it really comes down to, every time. You by your own admission have no idea where else Cuba might procure the things it needs to survive, but partnering with the Russians is verboten because you personally find it distasteful, regardless of the fact that no other willing assistance is forthcoming.
So you don’t like this move purely because of Russia? I agree that Russia is not the nation we would want it to be right now, but it’s hard to argue they are 100% bad when they’ve been fighting nato the last two years. Not to mention objectively speaking Putin has been dealing with the Russian oligarchs his entire career that were created by the west. It’s only since the war in Ukraine that Russia has had any real hold of their economy since 1991. I think you need some historical perspective on this because you sound exactly the same as any western liberal.
I don't know whether to support the move, I don't like the optics of speaking of your warm relations with a fascist regime, and I think it is generally a mistake to trust a fascist regime with your security.
Hey you know who said pretty much the same about Putin dealing with the oligarchs and not being so bad and actually their government is good and cool now? The obama state department before the Syrian civil war. I think the ones lacking historical perpective isn't me., I think it's you guys. And given the immutable fact that I am right (always) and that I'm not the one in agreement with the US state department back when it wanted to have good Russian relations, I'm pretty confident in saying so.
Nobody's telling you not to argue for your point of view here, but this "I'm always right" bit doesn't make you sound confident, it makes you sound like a smug prick
Given that I am in the company of a bunch of smug pricks, it would seem only natural to act this way.
Explains why you're the only one acting this way
I'm not though. You just disagree with me so others being smug pricks reads as just normal behavior to you.
I wasn't aware that people having clearly stated reasons and citations for the things they believe constituted smugness now
Call me when that happens
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No, I'm "Correct".
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No. There are two people who have done anything approaching that. One I'm having a quite civil discussion about the definition of fascism with, and one is frothing about Robert Paxton.
I should also say that I did not lie about robert paxton, as proven by accurately describing things robert paxton said, while the other guy was just flat out wrong. Although at least while being wrong he managed to cite an article (Although he seems to think it cleared the movement around Trump, which it clearly doesn't). It seems, to me (And I am correct), that you have decided that I am wrong prima facie and therefore even just posting a jackoff emote counts as a good argument, while me going through how a thing fits within a definition that I describe doesn't.
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Again, no, I'm just correct and you're mad about that.
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No u
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you mean the conversation where you were wrong about robert paxton
yes we're smug asf because you're not giving yourself any credibility to challenge that
I’m gonna need some proof on this because I’ve never seen or heard such a thing. Not to mention Putin was not able to fully deal with the Russian oligarchs (WHO HAD CONNECTIONS TO WESTERN POWERS) until the US sanctioned them.
Very cute.
Okay, I’ll copypasta myself again:
AMAZING THAT HOURS LATER THIS IS THE ONE COMMENT NOT REPLIED TO.
At least they admitted to never having read Paxton lmfao
Ask me how I know you're going to make a post that sums up to this in like two thousand words, with shittily-cited quotations and at least one outright plagiarization, to either lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, or lemmy.world the minute you eventually catch your ban from this fed.
They really did go from five month squeaky-clean modlog to permaban in one thread.
What a speedrun that was.
I'd like to hope it's just like. Some unmedicated ish, and that they'll come back copacetic on a new account, 'cause I was here to see it and don't really get how that's possible, like-- liberals aren't typically that patient about dropping a mask; and that whole bullshit could've been avoided if they'd just shut the fuck up, accepted the critique for bearing western water, and actually stopped to think about the asinine fuckshit they were saying.
This whole thread has been most garbage take I’ve ever seen a Hexbear user account of any significant vintage make. It’s like you have almost no understanding of imperialism/colonialism or of “critical support” for bourgeois nationalist movements against them. Almost everyone here disagrees with you, as do many people of the Global South, who also align with and significantly support Russia against the imperial core.
bud you should've seen the wild shit that's been said here in the past 4 years, this is somewhat mild in comparison. Like slightly underripe jalapeño spicy.
Lucky for me I arrived fashionably late. Thank you for terraforming the place for me o7
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My friend, this isn't even the dumbest I've seen in the last 48 hours (thanks to the CPUSA threads)
it certainly has been one of those days... or weekends
See, I keep most people who shill for CPUSA blocked based on having grown sick of arguments over that org's predilection for tailism and how preachy about assimilationism some of its Black cadre have been-- what the hell's been going on this time?
In that case you've almost certainly blocked this person, since they've been doing that for a long time, but here's the thread anyway:
https://hexbear.net/post/2730106?scrollToComments=false
Oh jesus fucking christ not even ten comments down and I can tell this is gonna be some hot dogwater, thanks for keeping me in the loop tho
Mf got coons, minstrels, uncle Toms, and other assorted waterbearers for cracker genocide and started two-steppin like his gang of collaborators did shit smfh 🙄 Now I think about it you right; I HAVE argued with him before and he was JUST as obstinate then
Holy fuck tell us how you really feel homie 🤣
Impressive really considering that I am right.
Some turbolib smuglord has taken over someone’s hexbear account is what this sounds like. Really embarrassing.
I don't accept "Smug" as a point of criticism from this comment chain.
All true statements made by some sort of genius. Half the posts here have just been calling me an idiot, and I am not going to be shamed into falling in line. Therefore, "I'm right and you're wrong".
Nobody's shaming you into anything you self-righteous smuglord, we just think you're wrong.
Sadly thought it turned out that you were wrong and I was right, because I am always right.
Holy shit I thought this guy was a fellow comrade because I know literacy programs in pretty much all AES revolutions were highly valued.
I should have read more closely damn.
Is that a bit lol
No lmao.
"ur mad" is a bold stance to take given how fucking mad you guys are