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I think with anything sexual there's a tendency for many people to either overstate or understate the effects, and to some extent reverse cause and effect — that because of the taboo around sex that people can't think about sex with a cool head. Like I listen to HealthyGamer's concerns about gooning, and to me it doesn't really seem like there is much of anything fundamentally new or inherently bad about it, that the main problem with gooning is really just the context it exists within of this whole patriarchal masculinity in service of capitalism. Take that context away and all you're really left with in gooning is a specific way of getting yourself off, which might cause harm under certain conditions or when done in excess, but like, you can say the same about most things.
yeah I'm becoming slowly more and more disillusioned with the "masturbation (disgusting, unhealthy, pathetic) vs abstinence (virtuous, clean, chad)" discourse
Something that stood out to me about HealthyGamer's concerns was how he was talking about, like, if you get your sexual needs met by yourself you'll be disincentivized from getting your sexual needs met from other people — that bit struck me as kind of "allonormative" is maybe the word I'm looking for. Not that I think most gooners are a-spec or anything like that, but I still feel like the way HealthyGamer was talking, kind of implied or reinforced this idea that it is somehow necessary for people to be sexually and romantically attracted to others, and that being able to fulfill your sexual needs entirely by yourself is somehow unnatural or necessarily bad.
Yeah! I've noticed this for a bit now and I made a whole effort post kind of sort of about this. It's especially weird though because that isn't my experience? Idk in my experience I want to share sexual experiences anyway, there isn't a state where I say "welp I've had enough sex guess I never need to interact with anyone in a sexual way", just like how I never really say "welp I had enough video games guess I never need to play a co-op video game ever".
Big Edit: Actually that's the thing I think these people miss, even when they're credentialed like HealthyGamerGG. People's social-sexual desires aren't always the same as their solo-sexual desires and the fact we just assume they are is weird. And this is the very reason people get all scared about it, they recognize that there's differences to these sexual things in social-sexual situations compared to solo-sexual ones, and they see how fulfilling the former can be, but then they make the jump that solo-sexual experiences can then substitute for social-sexual experiences BUT ARE ALSO less satisfying and therefore not a proper substitute. So they think there's both something special about sex with other people AND that there's nothing special about sex with other people, it's a completely nonsensical position when examined closer.
You could argue that they're just worried that people will miss out on general social interaction and that they think there's no differences in the sexual aspects or desires related to solo or social sexual experiences, but I don't think that's true. If it was these people wouldn't be concerned about it at all because friends exist and plenty of people can go ages without having sex while also getting plenty of social interaction.
Edit 2: beginning to think a huge portion of it is concern trolling about "weird" queer or neurodivergent behaviors or desires. Like an attempt to build a foundation needed to pathologize stuff like furries or even just kinks that are altogether more common in queer communities than straight ones. Actually, if you read Sexed Up by Julia Serano, they go over how the DSM pathologizes ethical and reasonable attractions and conflates them with unethical and fucked up stuff like pedophilia. So there's precedent for this, too. We've been doing it for a while now.
I think with anything sexual there's a tendency for many people to either overstate or understate the effects, and to some extent reverse cause and effect — that because of the taboo around sex that people can't think about sex with a cool head. Like I listen to HealthyGamer's concerns about gooning, and to me it doesn't really seem like there is much of anything fundamentally new or inherently bad about it, that the main problem with gooning is really just the context it exists within of this whole patriarchal masculinity in service of capitalism. Take that context away and all you're really left with in gooning is a specific way of getting yourself off, which might cause harm under certain conditions or when done in excess, but like, you can say the same about most things.
yeah I'm becoming slowly more and more disillusioned with the "masturbation (disgusting, unhealthy, pathetic) vs abstinence (virtuous, clean, chad)" discourse
Something that stood out to me about HealthyGamer's concerns was how he was talking about, like, if you get your sexual needs met by yourself you'll be disincentivized from getting your sexual needs met from other people — that bit struck me as kind of "allonormative" is maybe the word I'm looking for. Not that I think most gooners are a-spec or anything like that, but I still feel like the way HealthyGamer was talking, kind of implied or reinforced this idea that it is somehow necessary for people to be sexually and romantically attracted to others, and that being able to fulfill your sexual needs entirely by yourself is somehow unnatural or necessarily bad.
Yeah! I've noticed this for a bit now and I made a whole effort post kind of sort of about this. It's especially weird though because that isn't my experience? Idk in my experience I want to share sexual experiences anyway, there isn't a state where I say "welp I've had enough sex guess I never need to interact with anyone in a sexual way", just like how I never really say "welp I had enough video games guess I never need to play a co-op video game ever".
Big Edit: Actually that's the thing I think these people miss, even when they're credentialed like HealthyGamerGG. People's social-sexual desires aren't always the same as their solo-sexual desires and the fact we just assume they are is weird. And this is the very reason people get all scared about it, they recognize that there's differences to these sexual things in social-sexual situations compared to solo-sexual ones, and they see how fulfilling the former can be, but then they make the jump that solo-sexual experiences can then substitute for social-sexual experiences BUT ARE ALSO less satisfying and therefore not a proper substitute. So they think there's both something special about sex with other people AND that there's nothing special about sex with other people, it's a completely nonsensical position when examined closer.
You could argue that they're just worried that people will miss out on general social interaction and that they think there's no differences in the sexual aspects or desires related to solo or social sexual experiences, but I don't think that's true. If it was these people wouldn't be concerned about it at all because friends exist and plenty of people can go ages without having sex while also getting plenty of social interaction.
Edit 2: beginning to think a huge portion of it is concern trolling about "weird" queer or neurodivergent behaviors or desires. Like an attempt to build a foundation needed to pathologize stuff like furries or even just kinks that are altogether more common in queer communities than straight ones. Actually, if you read Sexed Up by Julia Serano, they go over how the DSM pathologizes ethical and reasonable attractions and conflates them with unethical and fucked up stuff like pedophilia. So there's precedent for this, too. We've been doing it for a while now.
Well said.