Is there any flavor of libertarianism that even in theory makes sense? I lump libertarians together which I guess is unfair but I only talk to them online and they always seem to so similar however they define themselves with nuance. I find them to be ridiculous, obnoxious, and selfish.

For example - at Bluesky I just had an argument with a self-described socio-libertarian who was against "disruptive" protests against climate change. The character limit at Bluesky makes an actual discussion pointless in a situation like this. But they were an asshole anyway so that limit did me a favor. And I didn't need to her some kind of fantastical thinking about the magic of the free market solving climate change.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about libertarian socialism...

Libertarian socialism

Libertarian socialism is an anti-authoritarian and anti-capitalist political current that emphasises self-governance and workers' self-management. It is contrasted from other forms of socialism by its rejection of state ownership and from other forms of libertarianism by its rejection of private property. Broadly defined, it includes schools of both anarchism and Marxism, as well as other tendencies that oppose the state and capitalism.

  • FunkyStuff [he/him]
    ·
    23 days ago

    Lenin tells us "Only political power is real, everything else is an illusion."

    A political ideology that specifically sets out not to hold political power just lands you squarely in the field of irreality.

    In defense of Anarchist comrades, I think most of them understand Lenin's point intuitively and correctly identify that wielding revolutionary political power to bring about their ideas is necessary. Right wing libertarians don't, so their ideology is fundamentally not tethered to the real.

    • Incremental_anarchist [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      22 days ago

      I'm not totally sure I fall in the realm of anarchist, because I typically still want voting and some form of organizing, I just don't like the power structure and needless abstraction of representatives. I typically describe an ideal form of society as one composed of many small communities, that are sufficiently small for consensus democracies to be effective. That is, every rule is workshopped until it has unanimous support. So there are still rules, but through discussion and compromise, everyone supports every rule they follow. Travel and migration should be freely allowed, so people can find communities they are politically compatible with (perhaps by finding someone to trade houses with or asking to move in with someone). For projects that require scale to be reasonable, such as a form of currency for trading or a rail line or something, these communities can form coalitions, where decisions still require unanimity from a larger amount of people now, but only on the policies relevant to the coalition.

      The point is, the above still follows what I think the spirit of anarchism is: spreading power as thinly as possible, treating individuals as equals and preventing them from being subjugated by another.

      I don't think that what I described would be allowed to exist today due to imperialism, but I see it as an ideal that can be achieved eventually, as the contradictions of capital inevitably lead to a more equal and just society. That is, since socialism/communism are more stable than capitalism, eventually a society such as I described shouldn't have to be strong enough (militaristically nor controlling information) to defend itself against imperialism, and can then just peacefully exist.

      • FunkyStuff [he/him]
        ·
        22 days ago

        Yeah I totally vibe with what you're saying, and despite having a different vision of the future I think what you describe is generally compatible with what a more orthodox Marxist or ML outlook prescribes in terms of the political action that's necessary right now. I think the issue of allergy to power, what I'm criticizing, is something you find in the right-libertarians that don't have a coherent plan to achieve that vision. But you probably would agree with me that building organized labor, anti-colonial struggle, queer liberation groups, etc to escalate the contradictions is the way that we build political power, which can then be leveraged to create a world where this vision is possible.