I know it's popular to defend TLJ because the main detractors against it are all racist chuds who hate it for the stupidest reasons, but it's still a terrible movie. The plot goes nowhere, the world building is an affront to basic human sanity, and every character in the movie had a clause in their contract to grab hold of The Idiot Ball the second they came on screen and never let go of it lest any of them use their brains for long enough to negate the gigantic plot holes and stupid decisions permeating every scene. It had some great ideas that would have been fresh and exciting if they were executed better and weren't in the second movie of a trilogy that was never intended to have those themes (you can't really pull the "heroes can come from anywhere and be nobodies" theme when your entire trilogy is nostalgia bait glazing all the legendary figures from the OG trilogy in every other scene).
If you put a gun to my head and made me pick a best film out of that trilogy I'd unfortunately say TFA, with the caveat that it's just a significantly worse version of A New Hope that hadn't completely squandered its cast yet.
I've always been very pro Last Jedi - there's some shaggy elements to it (in particular, low speed chase is kind of silly) but overall I actually really like it - Luke and Rey's arcs are both good. I also really like "rey from nowhere" and the fact they recanted all of it was truly dogshit storytelling.
That would actually make sense as well, because that scene raises the question of why don't pilots just do this all the time. Requiring force sensitivity to properly pull off a kamikaze move gives it a good reason to be near impossible
At the risk of combining pedantry with Star Wars nerd crap, I believe (this is just what I remember) that there's a line or two in the movie that states that the ship's shields were fully down, and it's implied that this is the only reason why the suicide attack worked. In lore, shields on ships are primarily for physical objects (like asteroids and crap), so it makes sense to me that they can, I guess, magically repel even other ships in hyperdrive unless the shields are down.
From the debate at the time, I think it was a timing thing too, you jump too soon you’re an ethereal hyperdrive ship that passes through them, you jump too late their shields are up and /or their tractor beam is stopping you (for small kamikaze ships).
That’s why I think Leia should have done it and for any non force user it would have been next to impossible etc. Plus it completes Kylo’s ascension that both his parents are dead.
I thought Snoke getting smoked was one of the coolest uses of a standard "evil chair alien" that I've ever seen. Just a cool twist that set up a power vacuum intrigue with Kylo Ren. Que my immediate bafflement when I went online and saw legions of nerds malding that Supreme Lord Snoke didn't get hours of backstory and lore explanation.
Yeah very reminiscent of the ROTJ sand dunes fight in some ways, lots of chaos even tho it's less kinetic (the back and forth between the barge makes that one way cooler in many ways)
There's a lot of aspects about it I really like...but as a complete piece...it's just not there for me. Take Luke Skywalker's cynical turn for example. On paper: fucking love it. There's that meme going around showing young and old luke with young college philosophy graduate and jaded Marxist professor.
But like...if you're going to have earnestly eternal optimist Luke turn cynical it has to be from a failure of that optimism to have positive results rather than a failure to follow it. Luke being tempted to kill kylo ren makes sense to me....but I don't get how he concluded his entire philosophy and worldview was wrong when by his own admission it was a "moment of weakness" where he almost did the most contradictory thing to his own philosophy that he's ever done. If anything I think that whole fallout would have made him double down.
So much of the movie is like that. Good pieces in isolation but none of them quite work.
That being said: it's the best by far of the sequel trilogy. Rise of Skywalker is a dumpster fire. Force awakens is a pandering cynical cash grab with nothing worthwhile to say or add that gets progressively worse every year.
Last Jedi feels like it's made by an actual artist with something to say....even if what he's saying just doesn't quite hit.
I still don't understand the reaction to the Last Jedi. Otherwise sensible people have the most dogshit takes on it.
I know it's popular to defend TLJ because the main detractors against it are all racist chuds who hate it for the stupidest reasons, but it's still a terrible movie. The plot goes nowhere, the world building is an affront to basic human sanity, and every character in the movie had a clause in their contract to grab hold of The Idiot Ball the second they came on screen and never let go of it lest any of them use their brains for long enough to negate the gigantic plot holes and stupid decisions permeating every scene. It had some great ideas that would have been fresh and exciting if they were executed better and weren't in the second movie of a trilogy that was never intended to have those themes (you can't really pull the "heroes can come from anywhere and be nobodies" theme when your entire trilogy is nostalgia bait glazing all the legendary figures from the OG trilogy in every other scene).
If you put a gun to my head and made me pick a best film out of that trilogy I'd unfortunately say TFA, with the caveat that it's just a significantly worse version of A New Hope that hadn't completely squandered its cast yet.
Bingo, right on the money
I've always been very pro Last Jedi - there's some shaggy elements to it (in particular, low speed chase is kind of silly) but overall I actually really like it - Luke and Rey's arcs are both good. I also really like "rey from nowhere" and the fact they recanted all of it was truly dogshit storytelling.
I read that RJ wanted the suicide hyper drive attack to be done by Leia and got overruled. That would have made so much more sense.
Her tapping the force to pull off a once in a lifetime thing that even veteran pilots and computers can't do.
Like Luke with the deathstar.
That would actually make sense as well, because that scene raises the question of why don't pilots just do this all the time. Requiring force sensitivity to properly pull off a kamikaze move gives it a good reason to be near impossible
At the risk of combining pedantry with Star Wars nerd crap, I believe (this is just what I remember) that there's a line or two in the movie that states that the ship's shields were fully down, and it's implied that this is the only reason why the suicide attack worked. In lore, shields on ships are primarily for physical objects (like asteroids and crap), so it makes sense to me that they can, I guess, magically repel even other ships in hyperdrive unless the shields are down.
From the debate at the time, I think it was a timing thing too, you jump too soon you’re an ethereal hyperdrive ship that passes through them, you jump too late their shields are up and /or their tractor beam is stopping you (for small kamikaze ships).
That’s why I think Leia should have done it and for any non force user it would have been next to impossible etc. Plus it completes Kylo’s ascension that both his parents are dead.
That would have been actually awesome. Should have let him cook
Ray from nowhere and the kid with the force at the end was a great message that a hero can be from anywhere.
Ray being a nobody and Snoke getting killed without any backstory was two of the best twists possible. Both undone.
The throne room battle was actually sick as well and yeah snoke getting smoked was 10/10
I thought Snoke getting smoked was one of the coolest uses of a standard "evil chair alien" that I've ever seen. Just a cool twist that set up a power vacuum intrigue with Kylo Ren. Que my immediate bafflement when I went online and saw legions of nerds malding that Supreme Lord Snoke didn't get hours of backstory and lore explanation.
Oh yeah the throne room fight was good, like more of a brawl than over choreographed stuff in the prequels.
Yeah very reminiscent of the ROTJ sand dunes fight in some ways, lots of chaos even tho it's less kinetic (the back and forth between the barge makes that one way cooler in many ways)
LITTLE
WHITE
C U C K B A L L
There's a lot of aspects about it I really like...but as a complete piece...it's just not there for me. Take Luke Skywalker's cynical turn for example. On paper: fucking love it. There's that meme going around showing young and old luke with young college philosophy graduate and jaded Marxist professor.
But like...if you're going to have earnestly eternal optimist Luke turn cynical it has to be from a failure of that optimism to have positive results rather than a failure to follow it. Luke being tempted to kill kylo ren makes sense to me....but I don't get how he concluded his entire philosophy and worldview was wrong when by his own admission it was a "moment of weakness" where he almost did the most contradictory thing to his own philosophy that he's ever done. If anything I think that whole fallout would have made him double down.
So much of the movie is like that. Good pieces in isolation but none of them quite work.
That being said: it's the best by far of the sequel trilogy. Rise of Skywalker is a dumpster fire. Force awakens is a pandering cynical cash grab with nothing worthwhile to say or add that gets progressively worse every year.
Last Jedi feels like it's made by an actual artist with something to say....even if what he's saying just doesn't quite hit.
nerds will immediately go home after watching a movie to watch a four hour video essay before they can process their own feelings on things
there are some gems and it's the best of the trilogy, but there is also just a lot of garbage and poor choices.