People are tired of stagnant wages, even just pointing out how much wages in China have grown builds resentment toward Capitalism.
China literally did capitalism to achieve that growth. Not exactly the neoliberal conception of capitalism but capitalism nevertheless. If that's what you want to advocate for, there is plenty more examples to pick from than just China.
China is a surviving example of a planned economy
China is not a planned economy and hasn't been for a long time. China is just more interventionist than most western countries.
I have no idea why someone would chose the most controversial country possible that isn't even doing what you are advocating for for your propaganda.
The Uyghur conversation doesn’t have to be bad either if you have the credibility can turn it into a discussion about imperialism and the false pretenses of American interventionism.
Yeah totally, it's definitely not like it's gonna end up with you looking like a creepy genocide denier or whatever. Look, I've seen people try that stuff. I've seen the kinds of people who go around campus telling people how cool and misunderstood Stalin was and I've seen how badly it goes. If you wanna talk about some of the good aspects of China specifically, go ahead but if your propaganda is "haha hey I'm a socialist and China is also cool socialists, look how cool they are", it's gonna maybe work on 5 people and the rest are just gonna think you're a bunch of creeps.
The growth is occurring under a dictatorship of the proletariat, wherein 70% of all heavy industry was nationalized and the state exerts a level of control, intervention and open class warfare far beyond Keynesian capitalist states.
Sure they have that large state union but laborers are still conducting strikes and wildcat strikes at a significantly higher rate than in union strongholds, and those radicals are much more likely to be literal Maoists than limp social democrats.
They are explicitly attempting to correct for the pitfalls of the Soviet Union, namely capitalist encirclement, autarky, and the overwhelming of the planning apparatus for as long as possible. They are also adapting to the reality of the world without the Soviet Union, wherein socialism is no longer a world power and concessions must be made to avoid being destroyed in the same manner.
On your last point that isn't what I do. At least 40% of young people identify as socialists and I go based on their concerns. China is one of the best propaganda tools if you know how and when to use it. It's an existing socialist project that is wildly successful. It's not in second place like the Soviet Union was.
If you want to see what a state capitalist nation looks like when the Bourgeoise are in control, you can look at Russia.
Im not going to elaborate to avoid a struggle session, but China is not a DotP. Its a state capitalist country where the working class is exploited and actively oppressed. Nationalization is not proof of socialism, eg Norway, Azerbaijan etc. And executing billionaires is not evidence of classwarfare. Class war is something the proletariat does independently, not something a bourgeois state does in favor of national goals. Even Hitler persecuted finance capital.
What use is it to just state China isn't a proletarian dictatorship like it's a fact? Marxism Leninism has been called state capitalism since time immemorial so these arguments have been played out thousands of times. Until someone demonstrates a better way of instituting a proletarian dictatorship these quibbles are pointless and ignore the material reality of how hard it is to change an entire mode of production.
If I respond to this it's gonna become another silly China struggle session. But I don't buy for a second that you are actually effectively utilising China as a propaganda tool in a western country beyond just specific stuff. Unless maybe you are talking to people who never really paid any attention to international politics whatsoever.
you could make an eco-accelerationist argument that the maturation of capitalism in densely populated developing nations on a resource limited planet will much more quickly expose its inherent contradictions and is going to get us all killed decades ahead of schedule. but i'd imagine the easiest answer from most people would be to just kill all the poors, capitalism in one country, etc.
China literally did capitalism to achieve that growth. Not exactly the neoliberal conception of capitalism but capitalism nevertheless. If that's what you want to advocate for, there is plenty more examples to pick from than just China.
China is not a planned economy and hasn't been for a long time. China is just more interventionist than most western countries.
I have no idea why someone would chose the most controversial country possible that isn't even doing what you are advocating for for your propaganda.
Yeah totally, it's definitely not like it's gonna end up with you looking like a creepy genocide denier or whatever. Look, I've seen people try that stuff. I've seen the kinds of people who go around campus telling people how cool and misunderstood Stalin was and I've seen how badly it goes. If you wanna talk about some of the good aspects of China specifically, go ahead but if your propaganda is "haha hey I'm a socialist and China is also cool socialists, look how cool they are", it's gonna maybe work on 5 people and the rest are just gonna think you're a bunch of creeps.
The growth is occurring under a dictatorship of the proletariat, wherein 70% of all heavy industry was nationalized and the state exerts a level of control, intervention and open class warfare far beyond Keynesian capitalist states.
Sure they have that large state union but laborers are still conducting strikes and wildcat strikes at a significantly higher rate than in union strongholds, and those radicals are much more likely to be literal Maoists than limp social democrats.
They are explicitly attempting to correct for the pitfalls of the Soviet Union, namely capitalist encirclement, autarky, and the overwhelming of the planning apparatus for as long as possible. They are also adapting to the reality of the world without the Soviet Union, wherein socialism is no longer a world power and concessions must be made to avoid being destroyed in the same manner.
On your last point that isn't what I do. At least 40% of young people identify as socialists and I go based on their concerns. China is one of the best propaganda tools if you know how and when to use it. It's an existing socialist project that is wildly successful. It's not in second place like the Soviet Union was.
If you want to see what a state capitalist nation looks like when the Bourgeoise are in control, you can look at Russia.
Im not going to elaborate to avoid a struggle session, but China is not a DotP. Its a state capitalist country where the working class is exploited and actively oppressed. Nationalization is not proof of socialism, eg Norway, Azerbaijan etc. And executing billionaires is not evidence of classwarfare. Class war is something the proletariat does independently, not something a bourgeois state does in favor of national goals. Even Hitler persecuted finance capital.
What use is it to just state China isn't a proletarian dictatorship like it's a fact? Marxism Leninism has been called state capitalism since time immemorial so these arguments have been played out thousands of times. Until someone demonstrates a better way of instituting a proletarian dictatorship these quibbles are pointless and ignore the material reality of how hard it is to change an entire mode of production.
The question here is not about implementation, its about the very class character of the state.
If I respond to this it's gonna become another silly China struggle session. But I don't buy for a second that you are actually effectively utilising China as a propaganda tool in a western country beyond just specific stuff. Unless maybe you are talking to people who never really paid any attention to international politics whatsoever.
you could make an eco-accelerationist argument that the maturation of capitalism in densely populated developing nations on a resource limited planet will much more quickly expose its inherent contradictions and is going to get us all killed decades ahead of schedule. but i'd imagine the easiest answer from most people would be to just kill all the poors, capitalism in one country, etc.