1. Marx agreed that capitalism is very good at rapid economic growth, which is why Lenin implemented the NEP and Deng Xiaoping implemented the liberal reforms. So why abandon that completely for the system like in Cuba or North Korea which are very inefficient and grow slowly?

  2. Norway, Sweden, Iceland etc are the best places to live on earth. Clearly social democracy has provided the goods. Of course in recent years, due to neoliberalism, those countries are not as great places to live anymore, but they are still the best in the world. So why are you against social democracy if when implemented correctly, it is the best system we have seen? Communism also if not implemented correctly produced horrific results, its all about the implementation. Ideas alone are not enough.

  3. The vast majority of workers do not want communism. How will you try to establish communism democratically when people dont want it? When people say they want socialism, they usually talk about social programs or nationalization of key industries, rather than implementing Cuba or North Korea economy, no one wants that.

EDIT : I have another question. Are communists willing to work with social-democrats? Obviously neoliberalism and fascism are bigger threats, so wouldnt it make sense to vote for and support social democrats like AOC in USA or Corbyn in UK or Mélenchon in France?

  • Leon_Grotsky [comrade/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    That makes a lot of sense, but it more or less admits that capitalism is better for development than communism, no?

    I believe I already answered this question.

    Consider this instead; must you develop your industrial capacity forever?

    Is it possible to develop industrial capacity forever?

    Is it possible to reach a state of over -produced industrial capacity?

    If this last one in particular is true, then doesn't it require us to inevitably evolve past a system whose most benign trait is rapid and destructive development?

    I more or less agree that without price systems and competition, there is inefficiency, corruption, lack of incentive to develop etc.

    You say you agree, but refer to things I did not; you have me confused.

    HDI, social wage, real wages, quality of life, worker conditions etc

    While these are nice things to keep track of, I think it is incredibly shallow to presume these are what defines a "good" life.

    Im definitely wrong to speak for everyone, but I was just talking about in general. Like you dont see African migrants trying to immigrate to Cuba, instead they try to go to Norway or Sweden etc. I think most people would prefer to live in Scandinavia than North Korea. Like not all of course, definitely communists may want to live in NK, but then again, most people arent communists.

    I apologise if this part came across as harsh in the last reply, I tend to sound combative when I am trying to communicate clearly.

    Like you dont see African migrants trying to immigrate to Cuba, instead they try to go to Norway or Sweden etc. I think most people would prefer to live in Scandinavia than North Korea.

    I think this is another silly point that should be left out of the discussion. More emigrate intra-regionally to "richer" parts of Africa than Scandinavia, what does this say?

    spoiler

    I apologise this wasn't as deep as the last reply, but I've already overstayed my shift at work by 7 minutes to type this and I am punished for overtime so I may have to come back to it.