I was born and raised Catholic (Western Belarusian and Irish parents) and I went through a once-a-week religious class, but never felt especially attached to Christianity. I became an atheist over time and have been going through difficulties currently and I find that I still have a faith deep down. I’m interested in Islam because I read a tiny bit of the Quran as a kid out of curiosity (during the height of Islamophobia in the US, George Bush, early Obama era) and found that it wasn’t “terrifying and inhumane” as Fox News would say on the TV set at my grandparents’ condo. What resources would you point to for a beginner/ on the fence person to learn about Islam? Thank you in advance.
Consider what you think Islam will do for you that Christianity didn't
I used to be a muslim, now agnostic, so just my 2 cents...
If you're coming from Catholicism, then I dont think there's much difference than if you were to explore Islam. I think Islamic Mysticism is pretty cool though. I'm like agnostic/ sometimes deistic now I wanna say for the most part, so kinda in the same boat.
Hakim made a post about this in youtube, with plenty recommendations including one written by a far-right Christian that converted to islam lol
Do you know which books were suggested? I can’t find the vid on YT and I checked Hakim’s goodreads book recommendations online and couldn’t find much about Islam besides one or two books about the rise of Islamic Leftism. And because Hakim is a one word name, and a common name at that, I had trouble finding the OG vid online
Its not a video, its one of those community/comment posts. Its his latest post actually.
Why the hell does YouTube make community posts impossible to link to?
Because platforms don't want users attention to leak outside of their closed garden. It's an explicit decision.
Contast example from a search for "Social media external link closed garden"
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https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3149193/wechat-begins-open-its-walled-garden-rivals-allowing-links-one-one
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/18/tech/twitter-ban-social-media-links/index.html
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I find that I still have a faith deep down
Sounds like you were never an atheist then, just an undefined deist maybe?
I completely forgot the word “agnostic” when I was typing the post and used atheist instead lol my bad, I identify much more agnosticism, maybe that’s similar to an undefined deist
Agnostic is more about the level of certainty - you can have agnostic atheists or theists, who overall believe in their position, but would be open to evidence that disproved it. They're saying it sounds more like you're fairly certain there is a god of some type, you're just not sure what the "right" way to worship or respect them is.
Precisely. I vaguely feel a slight inclination towards believing there IS a god rather than believing there isn’t one. And I believe there is only one to clarify.
agnotism seems like the most rational perspective for me too OP; I try to follow a scientific mindset and making a definitive 'no god' statement imo implies some level of definitive proof of that. It shuts down promising ideas like the simulation theory; I'd rather just be highly sceptical of any religion that claims to know higher truths without also using scientific investigation to backup there claims.
strictly speaking you're not (and if that's a consistent belief haven't been) an atheist, then. Good luck converting, or not.
Yea I used to be an atheist for a few years, a few things happened and it awakened a realization that I still believe in A god, not sure exactly how I would pray to them
Deism is when you believe in a god but not necessarily a particular religion's version of one. Agnostic is when you are basically undecided one way or the other. Since you said that you still had faith i assumed you meant faith in some kind of god, even if it's not the Christian version anymore.
That’s not necessarily what deism means but it can. Wikipedia says it’s ascertaining that there is a god through reason. My previous impression was that it was basically saying there is a god who in some way created the universe but hasn’t intervened in creation much since. I find this view compelling, but I have yet to see a logical argument for the existence of god compelling enough for me to move beyond agnosticism.
Not really believing in a specific god but still being spiritual doesn’t disqualify one from atheism.
Maybe, but I wouldn’t say you need to believe in a god to be spiritual and strongly believing in a god is the only thing that disqualifies one from atheism. Even worldviews like deism that assume a god to exist can be practically atheist if they don’t think worshipping that god really matters.
i wouldn't lump deists in with atheism, that does a disservice to both groups. Maybe add a third axis to the knowlidge/belief square and call it "effort". Deists are more like nominally religious people who don't attend services or do a good job adhering to the tenets they claim, on the opposite end as Ned Flanders. atheists of course run the gamut from anti-theistic activists who want to arrest the pope and liked soviet policy to people you couldn't differentiate from the slacker theists without asking directly.
atheism and skepticism are separate as well, you could be a big alex jones bigfoot and aliens guy and just not believe in any gods, or you could leave a religion because you examine the clams and (lack of) evidence and make a euphoric logical conclusion. All the prominent ex-atheists i've heard of seem to be people who didn't reason themselves out of their supernatural beliefs in the first place, but there are probably exceptions.
I agree. My thought was coming from listening to a podcast by an orthodox Christian preacher where he was saying that if you don’t believe god’s intervening in everyday life like the deists or even some others who are theistic on paper can be considered practical atheists. Not that this means they are atheists, but they act like them if they act like the divine and real world are separate. (This podcast was recommended by some dude on revleft for people who see the world as binary, so they could understand dialectics).
Strangely I find myself on both sides of this divide. I left Christianity because I don’t think there is some loving god consciously intervening, but I still do silly rituals like making the sign of the cross when I want a certain outcome. I see the universe as a unified thing that is in some way divine even just in the spinozan way, but in daily life I’m a practical atheist. I guess I’m agnostic, I don’t believe in a magical heaven or hell, but who knows? The Buddhists could be right, the deists could be right, the pantheists could be right, and the anti-theists could be right. All I’m certain is that I don’t trust anyone who thinks they have a god that cares about your rituals and will intervene on behalf of you. I don’t trust anyone who’s very certain about exact realities, but I could see something like Buddhism where you’re supposed to see for yourself working.
I still do silly rituals like making the sign of the cross when I want a certain outcome
That's not Christianity though, that's electoralism
Assalamualaikum
Here is a page from excellent website with resources for learning about Islam. Discover Islam: https://www.al-islam.org/discover/converts-to-islam
One of the places you can start from there is just learning a bit about the life of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) https://www.al-islam.org/prophet-muhammad-s-brief-biography
Of course the Holy Quran https://quran.com/ this website allows you to compare multiple translations which can be very helpful English readers.
You can also find a local Masjid and tell them you want to learn more about Islam 🌙
Also start learning Arabic at least enough that you know the alphabet and can sound out the letters this will help in learning prayers and generally cultural competency.
I think you will find Islam is synergistic with anti-imperialist and socialist politics.
Keep an open mind, be patient with yourself. Allah (SWT) is the most patient and most merciful and He does not burden us with more than we can bear.
🤲🙏 insha'allah you find in Islam a path what you are seeking
As a former muslim,
I would strongly advise against it for 100s of reasons. In fact, I previously made a response indicating why it would be unwise and criticizing islam. Then my comment was removed and my account was banned.
That's actually a large reason why I'd stay away from islam and why i'm an atheist now. They can't take criticism. At all. If I publicly declared to the world that I'm an ex muslim, I'd literally get killed.
We'll see if this comment will get removed too and if my account gets banned. If it does, then it only proves my point. Muslims cannot tolerate anyone who disagree with them
Muslims cannot tolerate anyone who disagree with them
Generalizations like that do not help your argument at all. This gives straight up islamophobia. If you'd like to present some of the hundreds of reasons you have, that would be much more useful, even if biased.
So you made an inflammatory comment that broke the rules of this community and got you banned and now proudly proclaim that you evaded your ban which was not given out by a Muslim admin.
What did you expect would happen? Lemmygrad is not a soapbox for edgy atheists, and I'm an atheist too.
Please, be respectful and restraint yourself before speaking ill about the Prophet, his family and his companions
And if you where a "mumin" then you are among the liers because the Prophet (SAWS) didn't repress no one. He was respectful and showed mercy to everyone even to his enemies, that's why he is referred as Rahmat lil-Alamin "Mercy to the worlds"
There were women who lead the prayer notably Juwayriya bint al-Harith (RA) and Ghazala al-Haruriyya who In 696 AD (77 AH), after having controlled the city of Kufa for a day, Ghazala led her male warriors in prayer as well as recited two of the longest chapters from the Quran during the prayer inside the grand Mosque.
And what you said about isis and al-qaeda that “they are closer to islam in its original form than most people practicing now.”
No this is wrong, nor isis nor al-qaeda, they are not closer to the sunnah of the Prophet (SAWS) not even to the "original form" nor to al-Jannat as you mention, No they are more close to an-Nar (hell)
So please think before speaking with hatred and prejudice because one thing I am sure is that Muhammad (SAWS) was not a slaver, he freed slaves and turned them into companions, nor was he a thirsty killer nor was he a oppressor of women and neither oppressor of the mukhanathun.
Again please speak with respect and with the right knowledge and don't go on spreading misinformation.
Whatever a "Muslim" did to you or to anyone else here on lemmygrad or outside of it
I apologize for it, in their behalf (not on behalf of isis or al-qaeda of course 😂)
regardless of one's evaluation of the truth claims of a faith group you should respect the rules of the comm you're in.
