Yes the “Jewish state” is a diverse society. Where the the first class citizens are all “good jews” recognized by the state. Any lesser Jews or god forbid Arab peoples are second class citizens.
I condemn the racist politics of the right-extremist government of Israel and the social segregation and severe injustice it causes. What is your point?
From an antifascist perspective this meme is absolutely unacceptable
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist, simply because otherwise the Jews will not survive capitalism.
Imagine being this fragile of a person. Log off now lmao.
I condemn the racist politics of the right-extremist government of Israel and the social segregation and severe injustice it causes. What is your point?
Israel is an apartheid state, this isn't new, this isn't something that the current government did, this is the establishing principle of the state that has been held up since the start, calling an apartheid state "diverse" like you did in your first post is absolutely incorrect and is not close to the reality of the situation in any way shape or form, it's pure propaganda
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist, simply because otherwise the Jews will not survive capitalism.
having suffered in the past does not give a group of people free reign to commit those same acts against a separate unaffiliated population, having an ethnostate in the first place is not a good goal, but even if we said it was necessary, doing it through the ethnic cleansing and genocide of another group is not at all justifiable in any way.
treating things as if jews are simply different from regular people and could never survive as a minority in another country so they should not be judged by the same standard we apply to everyone is in itself an anti-semitic view to have, jews are regular people, committing genocide and ethnic cleansing is bad, whoever does it and however noble their goal is doesn't change that fact.
Israel is an apartheid state, this isn’t new, this isn’t something that the current government did, this is the establishing principle of the state that has been held up since the start
I of course know and absolutely condemn that, again what is your point?
Calling an apartheid state “diverse” like you did in your first post is absolutely incorrect and is not close to the reality of the situation in any way shape or form, it’s pure propaganda
Nope, Israel is the most diverse country in the whole region without question and it is also also the only democracy in the region. Other countries in the region are monarchies or (often military) dictatorships. On top of that, Israel is also the only country in the region that has womens and LGBTQ+ rights written into it's law, while in all other countries in the region women are being oppressed second class citizens and LGBTQ+ have to fear for their life constantly.
having suffered in the past does not give a group of people free reign to commit those same acts against a separate unaffiliated population
Agreed but sadly, when we look at history, it seems to happen quite often, no matter if we like it or not.
having an ethnostate in the first place is not a good goal, but even if we said it was necessary, doing it through the ethnic cleansing and genocide of another group is not at all justifiable in any way.
I fully agree with that statement. However this does not justify generalizing all Israeli citizens as child murderers.
treating things as if jews are simply different from regular people and could never survive as a minority in another country so they should not be judged by the same standard we apply to everyone is in itself an anti-semitic view to have, jews are regular people
I fully agree with you that jews are just people like everyone else but we should also consider the regular antisemitic pogroms that happened throughout history, which are an obvious motivation for a community to get their own safe space in the world.
committing genocide and ethnic cleansing is bad, whoever does it and however noble their goal is doesn’t change that fact.
Absolutely agree. Please keep in mind that I in fact never apologized any of the crimes of the IDF or the illegal settlers. All I did was criticizing the antisemitic generalization of all citizens of Israel as casual child murderers. Sadly it seems like most people's opinions are simply too polarized to get such nuances at this point.
You don't have arguments, you have the trolling equivalent of scruffy lip hair a 15 year old boy will try to call a mustache.
You're arguing in defense of the slaughter of 5000 children. If you organize them by age, you had to go six pages in before you hit an age greater then zero. And that was a week ago.
You're sealioning over the corpses of children and trying to 'I'm just trying to have a mature discussion'.
I of course know and absolutely condemn that, again what is your point?
You do not know what these words mean and you do not truly condemn them, that's clear by the arguments you make
Israel is the most diverse country in the whole region without question
"Without question" since when are you a middle east expert? How many years did it take to get your doctorate degree on the subject?
Israel is not diverse, an apartheid state cannot be applauded for having the second class citizens be of a different race, by your logic south Africa during apartheid was the most diverse country in the southern African region
and it is also also the only democracy
Do you know what an apartheid state is? Could you give me that definition, and then give me the definition of a democracy, and try to weasel your way out of the contradiction that an apartheid state can't be a democracy
Other countries in the region are monarchies or (often military) dictatorships.
The UK is a monarchy, but I bet you think it's democratic to some degree, are you aware that a lot of the monarchies in the region employ a similar parliamentary system?
Israel is also the only country in the region that has womens and LGBTQ+ rights written into it's law
You can blame CIA funding the religious extremist reactionaries (and also the british bringing in the criminalization of lgbtq people during their colonial rule over the region) for the oppressive laws that exist in the region, but despite that it's not as bad in certain countries that are more progressive, a lot of the middle eastern countries are on the level of Serbia/other reactionary Balkan countries in terms of lgbtq stuff
Israel is not really better for lgbtq people, especially Palestinian citizens of Israel that belong to that group, they are very heavily oppressed and regularly harassed and even get blackmailed by the IDF due to their identities
You show that you don't know anything about the region, just repeat the propaganda and pink washing that you've been fed.
while in all other countries in the region women are being oppressed second class citizens
it's very funny that you think this, in a lot of the countries in the region (notable exceptions being US allies like Saudi Arabia) women have the same rights and protections under the law, this has been the case for many many years in most of these countries, women's rights are lagging behind the west sure, but it's nowhere near as bad as you have been told, especially in more recent years
Agreed but sadly, when we look at history, it seems to happen quite often, no matter if we like it or not.
"Agreed but" no buts, this is not a justifiable action, the fact that it happened in the past doesn't justify current day actionsththe fact that the US and Britain committed genocide doesn't mean we should just give up on fucking stopping genocide, "no matter if we like it or not" we have reached an agreement that we don't like it, a global consensus that it is bad (other than the US and other western countries that support Israel, they love genocide), so we should stop people from committing genocide, if Russia starts to commit an actual genocide in Ukraine like Israel is doing in Gaza, then you'll no doubt agree that the world should sanction them, etc, in order to stop them, you just don't think Palestinians are people like Ukrainians are.
I fully agree with that statement. However this does not justify generalizing all Israeli citizens as child murderers.
During Hitlers rule of Nazi Germany, a very large number of Germans picked up arms and fought against their government, and were killed for it, mainly communists and leftists
But a lot Germans lived happily under and supported the actions of their government
Would you say those Germans that never lifted a finger to oppose the genocide and ethnic cleansing of jews were responsible for what happened? I'd say yes, they did not protest, did not resist, especially the ones that served in the army
Are you aware that the majority of Israeli citizens are reservists that will pick up arms to serve in the IDF if given the order? Are you aware that the IDF has a higher than 80% approval rating among Israelis? How are these people not complicit?
I fully agree with you that jews are just people like everyone else but we should also consider the regular antisemitic pogroms that happened throughout history, which are an obvious motivation for a community to get their own safe space in the world.
We should indeed consider those pogroms, every antisemite in Europe should be killed for their crimes, rather than what happened (governments with the help of NATO suppressing communists and leftists and promoting nationalistic (usually antisemitic) groups)
Also, all you've done with this argument is establish that "Jews should get an ethnostate" (I still disagree but I'll humor you for a second), you did not establish that a noble cause justifies ethnic cleansing and genocide, therefore the actions of Israel are no more acceptable than the actions of british settlers committing genocide against native Americans
Absolutely agree. Please keep in mind that I in fact never apologized any of the crimes of the IDF or the illegal settlers.
You did, continuously bringing up that zionists have a (in your view) noble cause is an attempt at the justification of ethnic cleansing and genocide
All I did was criticizing the antisemitic generalization of all citizens of Israel as casual child murderers.
They are complicit in the child murder.
Sadly it seems like most people's opinions are simply too polarized to get such nuances at this point.
Nope, Israel is the most diverse country in the whole region without question
South Africa is diverse and was so during apartheid. This doesn't make it any less of an illegitimate apartheid state. In fact it makes it worse.
The zionist entity actively rejects that diversity by declaring itself an exclusively Jewish state. Palestinians can live there under various degrees of apartheid but they will never be considered equal to the Jewish population.
it is also also the only democracy in the region.
The zionist entity occupies the entirety of Palestine as well as parts of Syria. On that territory lives more than seven million Palestinians. Two million of those are considered citizens of the zionist entity and although they are systematically discriminated against and harassed they are allowed to vote.
In addition to the seven million Palestinians living in Palestine, more than three million Palestinian refugees lives outside of Palestine and are being denied their right to return to their homeland by the zionist entity.
Of the zionist entity's population seven million are Jews.
Why all of these demographics? Well, of a population of seventeen million, Jews make up a minority. However while all seven million Jews are allowed to vote in the zionist entity's elections, only two million Palestinians are allowed to.
As a result result of having elections only for the elite ethnic minority, politics of the zionist entity has moved to be dominated by far right Jewish supremacists.
How democratic is that? How democratic is a state that explicitly and unapologetically declared itself to be a state for a minority of the population?
Palestinians enjoys very limited political freedoms and are severely hindered in their abilities to express themselves. They can get convicted by zionist courts for the crime of posting on social media that somebody has been murdered by the occupation forces. Even passively consuming "terrorist" media can land you in jail.
Calling the zionist entity democratic is to make a mockery of the concept of democracy. But even if you believe it to be democratic, how does that justify settler-colonialism and apartheid?
On top of that, Israel is also the only country in the region that has womens and LGBTQ+ rights written into it's law
The zionist entity is pretty unique in the world by still having miscegenation laws. A Jew and a Muslim cannot legally get married in the zionist entity. All family law is governed by theocratic and unelected conservative religious institutions, creating separate legal systems for each religious demographic, no matter whether the individuals getting married shares these strict religious beliefs or not. As a consequence, there is no such thing as civil marriage in the zionist entity either and certainly not anything like gay marriage.
All I did was criticizing the antisemitic generalization of all citizens of Israel as casual child murderers
The zionist entity is a casual child murdering entity. Zionism is an ideology enabling casual child murdering. The evidence for their evil is overwhelming. But for the people of the zionist entity you can't really generalise any more than you can with any other population of millions of people. Each of them have the same potential to be good morally upright human beings as anyone else. With that being said, election results and polls suggests that a large portion of that population of the zionist entity subscribes to deeply racist Jewish supremacist ideas. This doesn't mean that they all share these views or that those who do cannot be deradicalised or that these beliefs are essential to Judaism rather than being offshoots of western imperialism.
Opposing apartheid systems is not racist. Opposing apartheid ideologies is not racist, even if those beliefs are prevalent among a certain ethnic group.
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist
the vast majority of jewish people in eastern europe post-war didn't migrate to either the autonomous oblast the USSR set up or Israel and chose instead to live in the eastern bloc or USSR proper, so they probably count as 'a lot of antifascists' that don't see a reason for Israel's existence
I condemn the racist politics of the right-extremist government of Israel and the social segregation and severe injustice it causes. What is your point?
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist, simply because otherwise the Jews will not survive capitalism.
But I´m having so much fun with you guys here?!
Israel is an apartheid state, this isn't new, this isn't something that the current government did, this is the establishing principle of the state that has been held up since the start, calling an apartheid state "diverse" like you did in your first post is absolutely incorrect and is not close to the reality of the situation in any way shape or form, it's pure propaganda
having suffered in the past does not give a group of people free reign to commit those same acts against a separate unaffiliated population, having an ethnostate in the first place is not a good goal, but even if we said it was necessary, doing it through the ethnic cleansing and genocide of another group is not at all justifiable in any way.
treating things as if jews are simply different from regular people and could never survive as a minority in another country so they should not be judged by the same standard we apply to everyone is in itself an anti-semitic view to have, jews are regular people, committing genocide and ethnic cleansing is bad, whoever does it and however noble their goal is doesn't change that fact.
I of course know and absolutely condemn that, again what is your point?
Nope, Israel is the most diverse country in the whole region without question and it is also also the only democracy in the region. Other countries in the region are monarchies or (often military) dictatorships. On top of that, Israel is also the only country in the region that has womens and LGBTQ+ rights written into it's law, while in all other countries in the region women are being oppressed second class citizens and LGBTQ+ have to fear for their life constantly.
Agreed but sadly, when we look at history, it seems to happen quite often, no matter if we like it or not.
I fully agree with that statement. However this does not justify generalizing all Israeli citizens as child murderers.
I fully agree with you that jews are just people like everyone else but we should also consider the regular antisemitic pogroms that happened throughout history, which are an obvious motivation for a community to get their own safe space in the world.
Absolutely agree. Please keep in mind that I in fact never apologized any of the crimes of the IDF or the illegal settlers. All I did was criticizing the antisemitic generalization of all citizens of Israel as casual child murderers. Sadly it seems like most people's opinions are simply too polarized to get such nuances at this point.
Democracies that require the demographic majority remain the demographic majority aren't democracies.
Neither are apartheid States.
Why do you ignore all the arguments I made? Got nothing to counter I guess?
You don't have arguments, you have the trolling equivalent of scruffy lip hair a 15 year old boy will try to call a mustache.
You're arguing in defense of the slaughter of 5000 children. If you organize them by age, you had to go six pages in before you hit an age greater then zero. And that was a week ago.
You're sealioning over the corpses of children and trying to 'I'm just trying to have a mature discussion'.
There is nothing mature about what you are doing.
It's disgusting and you are fucking disgusting.
You do not know what these words mean and you do not truly condemn them, that's clear by the arguments you make
"Without question" since when are you a middle east expert? How many years did it take to get your doctorate degree on the subject?
Israel is not diverse, an apartheid state cannot be applauded for having the second class citizens be of a different race, by your logic south Africa during apartheid was the most diverse country in the southern African region
Do you know what an apartheid state is? Could you give me that definition, and then give me the definition of a democracy, and try to weasel your way out of the contradiction that an apartheid state can't be a democracy
The UK is a monarchy, but I bet you think it's democratic to some degree, are you aware that a lot of the monarchies in the region employ a similar parliamentary system?
You can blame CIA funding the religious extremist reactionaries (and also the british bringing in the criminalization of lgbtq people during their colonial rule over the region) for the oppressive laws that exist in the region, but despite that it's not as bad in certain countries that are more progressive, a lot of the middle eastern countries are on the level of Serbia/other reactionary Balkan countries in terms of lgbtq stuff
Israel is not really better for lgbtq people, especially Palestinian citizens of Israel that belong to that group, they are very heavily oppressed and regularly harassed and even get blackmailed by the IDF due to their identities
You show that you don't know anything about the region, just repeat the propaganda and pink washing that you've been fed.
it's very funny that you think this, in a lot of the countries in the region (notable exceptions being US allies like Saudi Arabia) women have the same rights and protections under the law, this has been the case for many many years in most of these countries, women's rights are lagging behind the west sure, but it's nowhere near as bad as you have been told, especially in more recent years
"Agreed but" no buts, this is not a justifiable action, the fact that it happened in the past doesn't justify current day actionsththe fact that the US and Britain committed genocide doesn't mean we should just give up on fucking stopping genocide, "no matter if we like it or not" we have reached an agreement that we don't like it, a global consensus that it is bad (other than the US and other western countries that support Israel, they love genocide), so we should stop people from committing genocide, if Russia starts to commit an actual genocide in Ukraine like Israel is doing in Gaza, then you'll no doubt agree that the world should sanction them, etc, in order to stop them, you just don't think Palestinians are people like Ukrainians are.
During Hitlers rule of Nazi Germany, a very large number of Germans picked up arms and fought against their government, and were killed for it, mainly communists and leftists
But a lot Germans lived happily under and supported the actions of their government
Would you say those Germans that never lifted a finger to oppose the genocide and ethnic cleansing of jews were responsible for what happened? I'd say yes, they did not protest, did not resist, especially the ones that served in the army
Are you aware that the majority of Israeli citizens are reservists that will pick up arms to serve in the IDF if given the order? Are you aware that the IDF has a higher than 80% approval rating among Israelis? How are these people not complicit?
We should indeed consider those pogroms, every antisemite in Europe should be killed for their crimes, rather than what happened (governments with the help of NATO suppressing communists and leftists and promoting nationalistic (usually antisemitic) groups)
Also, all you've done with this argument is establish that "Jews should get an ethnostate" (I still disagree but I'll humor you for a second), you did not establish that a noble cause justifies ethnic cleansing and genocide, therefore the actions of Israel are no more acceptable than the actions of british settlers committing genocide against native Americans
You did, continuously bringing up that zionists have a (in your view) noble cause is an attempt at the justification of ethnic cleansing and genocide
They are complicit in the child murder.
You're a liberal.
South Africa is diverse and was so during apartheid. This doesn't make it any less of an illegitimate apartheid state. In fact it makes it worse.
The zionist entity actively rejects that diversity by declaring itself an exclusively Jewish state. Palestinians can live there under various degrees of apartheid but they will never be considered equal to the Jewish population.
The zionist entity occupies the entirety of Palestine as well as parts of Syria. On that territory lives more than seven million Palestinians. Two million of those are considered citizens of the zionist entity and although they are systematically discriminated against and harassed they are allowed to vote.
In addition to the seven million Palestinians living in Palestine, more than three million Palestinian refugees lives outside of Palestine and are being denied their right to return to their homeland by the zionist entity.
Of the zionist entity's population seven million are Jews.
Why all of these demographics? Well, of a population of seventeen million, Jews make up a minority. However while all seven million Jews are allowed to vote in the zionist entity's elections, only two million Palestinians are allowed to.
As a result result of having elections only for the elite ethnic minority, politics of the zionist entity has moved to be dominated by far right Jewish supremacists.
How democratic is that? How democratic is a state that explicitly and unapologetically declared itself to be a state for a minority of the population?
Palestinians enjoys very limited political freedoms and are severely hindered in their abilities to express themselves. They can get convicted by zionist courts for the crime of posting on social media that somebody has been murdered by the occupation forces. Even passively consuming "terrorist" media can land you in jail.
Calling the zionist entity democratic is to make a mockery of the concept of democracy. But even if you believe it to be democratic, how does that justify settler-colonialism and apartheid?
The zionist entity is pretty unique in the world by still having miscegenation laws. A Jew and a Muslim cannot legally get married in the zionist entity. All family law is governed by theocratic and unelected conservative religious institutions, creating separate legal systems for each religious demographic, no matter whether the individuals getting married shares these strict religious beliefs or not. As a consequence, there is no such thing as civil marriage in the zionist entity either and certainly not anything like gay marriage.
The zionist entity is a casual child murdering entity. Zionism is an ideology enabling casual child murdering. The evidence for their evil is overwhelming. But for the people of the zionist entity you can't really generalise any more than you can with any other population of millions of people. Each of them have the same potential to be good morally upright human beings as anyone else. With that being said, election results and polls suggests that a large portion of that population of the zionist entity subscribes to deeply racist Jewish supremacist ideas. This doesn't mean that they all share these views or that those who do cannot be deradicalised or that these beliefs are essential to Judaism rather than being offshoots of western imperialism.
Opposing apartheid systems is not racist. Opposing apartheid ideologies is not racist, even if those beliefs are prevalent among a certain ethnic group.
the vast majority of jewish people in eastern europe post-war didn't migrate to either the autonomous oblast the USSR set up or Israel and chose instead to live in the eastern bloc or USSR proper, so they probably count as 'a lot of antifascists' that don't see a reason for Israel's existence
I wrote a lot, not all, so there is no contradiction.