as a black woman the whole :"karen is sexist against the precious white white Womeeeennnn who are trying to murder black people" discourse is so embarrassing...like who gives a fuck. white women are dangerous is this very specific way and they deserve to be called out for it. The people who have been designated as karens are almost always engaging in scary, dangerous and harmful behavior towards minorities. and yeah we can call out men doing that too, but the origin of the term doesn't narrow in on white women in a sexist way, it narrows in on white women because its addressing a form of racial violence unique to white women. just because random white boys on the internet are using the term in a sexist way doesnt make the term (in its original, black context) sexist and the call out that those white boys are doing anyway doesnt even have any teeth anymore since its become an internet joke anyway. it also doesnt have any teeth compared to uh, the experience of a black person dealing with a karen
Also lmao at the non black people in this thread asserting that the origin of karen is sexist like....um....the origin of karen was how black people identified the type of white women that got emmett till murdered...it didnt just start popping up on r/publicfreakout
i for one welcome any term that even scratches that surface even if surburban white boys hypocritically use it as another outlet for them hate their bake sale soul cycle helicopter moms (thats between, them and their moms and their rich ass therapist)
the issue is me, a black person trying to live and stay safe, not another exercise by white people (who stole the term karen anyway) to see if an appropriated term used over the internet makes them feel slightly uncomfy or not, contributing to an unprecendented coddling, cover and centralization that white women and white women racism has received for centuries. if youre handwringing over who gets to be called a karen (in terms of freaking out as a white person with EmPaThY about being suggested to be a karen aka a busy body racist) then youre missing the point of the term. its like when white people freakout over being called racist, absolutely pathetic and self centered and indicative
if you dont want to be stereotyped as a karen dont go apeshit on black people minding their business. if i have to ruthlessly police myself to not appear threatening or violent so the state doesnt murder me, you can do the simple act of shutting the fuck up
i have definitely noticed it be used wrong, against particularly black woman (like you dont think that annoys me??????? and isnt even more disrespectful than when EmPatHetIc white women are "wrongfully" called karen??) and think thats just an example of appropriation and misuse that does not mess with the original meaning of the word (something im probably primed to accept because everything black people have ever done has been stolen by yall) and more importantly that i do not want "woke" white people trying to use as an excuse against me using the word when they absolutely do not have the geopolitical space to do that. (like in this thread where yall are just...absolutely missing the point and origin of the word like jesus christ, which is another offense within everything here: like at least know where your shit comes from...its not like you havent stolen from us before!) regardless its just non black people, and some non women saying theyre uncomfy about shit that isnt even theres to begin with, on the lets kill landlords in minecraft sub....
i as a black woman am not dismissing sexism when i bring that perspective....i am fighting for the black women perspective to be heard, for the womanist perspective to be heard and to show the racist side of white feminist coddling rhetoric and culture. is it sexist to say that white feminism doesnt encompass black women?
also since when does this sub care about a term that is aimed at rich white women in power like even if karen was some sexist farrakhan secret we hate yakubs invention of The Black Folk to specifically target women, this sub has definitely made the distinction between identity and material conditions every single time and has not been as forgiving to actual women of color we discuss on here who might seem too lib, or seem too reliant on their identites than they are towards an imaginary white woman they conjured up who reads white fragility and thus our use of karen is too mean to the imaginary GOOD white woman, because if she reads white fragility and can still be called karen, what about all the chapo.chat users who used to say the n word on chat roulette?? will the black people ever like theeemmmmm????
also like... every word created by black people has been stolen and misused by everyone else....its weird to focus on karen when we have watched "woke" "dope" "the bomb" "ice in my veins" the n word, "homie" and other uses of AAVE be run into the ground. at least karen as i said before, is aiming at the particular insidious violence white women innact on black people. it feels suspicious considering how everything we do is stolen to zero in on one of the few words that still point out white racism.....all while using rhetoric meant to bargain with the word and the black people using it, parsing through who can be a karen based on whether they have EmPaThY and posted a black square on insta last year....its giving pathetic and guilty and again is contributing to the coddling white women and white women racism experiences when we talk about racism.
Why else is that when we do the whole karen is sexist thing we never acknowledge where the term came from and the racial violence that its meant to point out and the racial violence we witness when karen is often being brought up. when we focus on our imaginary white women feelings (which by the way, the original karen type isnt imaginary. we saw amy cooper in central park, the crazy white woman in SF who in response SF passed the K.A.R.E.N. law to prevent people from using the cops as their customer service mediators ---like the Karen as we know it isnt even imaginary, but notice how some people in this thread went there.....) above all else its hard to feel like yall arent ratfucking (when you go there, not you OP, and not those simply being like: karen could maybe be sexist...although i judge those who have brought that up but havent brought up the history)
lets also not forget how white people often pathologize black culture (including music) and black people (particularly men) to be extra sexist and extra trad......hmmmmmmmmm
but regardless, please dont take down "karen" under my womanhood (a womanhood of which the sexism i experience is partially defined by white women violence), taking down karen because it might be mean to the wittle white woman without talking about my struggles as a black woman is sexist and racist. (which based on some of the commenters' logic, seems like i won here because the context of a term/situation doesnt matter if it seems mean to a marginalized person right?)
i think the n word discourse has shown that its probably not the best to problematize a black term aimed to acknowledge and call out black oppression based on white people stealing it and misusing it
as a black woman the whole :"karen is sexist against the precious white white Womeeeennnn who are trying to murder black people" discourse is so embarrassing...like who gives a fuck. white women are dangerous is this very specific way and they deserve to be called out for it. The people who have been designated as karens are almost always engaging in scary, dangerous and harmful behavior towards minorities. and yeah we can call out men doing that too, but the origin of the term doesn't narrow in on white women in a sexist way, it narrows in on white women because its addressing a form of racial violence unique to white women. just because random white boys on the internet are using the term in a sexist way doesnt make the term (in its original, black context) sexist and the call out that those white boys are doing anyway doesnt even have any teeth anymore since its become an internet joke anyway. it also doesnt have any teeth compared to uh, the experience of a black person dealing with a karen
Also lmao at the non black people in this thread asserting that the origin of karen is sexist like....um....the origin of karen was how black people identified the type of white women that got emmett till murdered...it didnt just start popping up on r/publicfreakout
i for one welcome any term that even scratches that surface even if surburban white boys hypocritically use it as another outlet for them hate their bake sale soul cycle helicopter moms (thats between, them and their moms and their rich ass therapist)
the issue is me, a black person trying to live and stay safe, not another exercise by white people (who stole the term karen anyway) to see if an appropriated term used over the internet makes them feel slightly uncomfy or not, contributing to an unprecendented coddling, cover and centralization that white women and white women racism has received for centuries. if youre handwringing over who gets to be called a karen (in terms of freaking out as a white person with EmPaThY about being suggested to be a karen aka a busy body racist) then youre missing the point of the term. its like when white people freakout over being called racist, absolutely pathetic and self centered and indicative
if you dont want to be stereotyped as a karen dont go apeshit on black people minding their business. if i have to ruthlessly police myself to not appear threatening or violent so the state doesnt murder me, you can do the simple act of shutting the fuck up
The original meaning is good, the problem is it's now just used against any "uppity" women, including black women.
I also don't think it's fair to dismiss sexism.
i have definitely noticed it be used wrong, against particularly black woman (like you dont think that annoys me??????? and isnt even more disrespectful than when EmPatHetIc white women are "wrongfully" called karen??) and think thats just an example of appropriation and misuse that does not mess with the original meaning of the word (something im probably primed to accept because everything black people have ever done has been stolen by yall) and more importantly that i do not want "woke" white people trying to use as an excuse against me using the word when they absolutely do not have the geopolitical space to do that. (like in this thread where yall are just...absolutely missing the point and origin of the word like jesus christ, which is another offense within everything here: like at least know where your shit comes from...its not like you havent stolen from us before!) regardless its just non black people, and some non women saying theyre uncomfy about shit that isnt even theres to begin with, on the lets kill landlords in minecraft sub....
i as a black woman am not dismissing sexism when i bring that perspective....i am fighting for the black women perspective to be heard, for the womanist perspective to be heard and to show the racist side of white feminist coddling rhetoric and culture. is it sexist to say that white feminism doesnt encompass black women?
also since when does this sub care about a term that is aimed at rich white women in power like even if karen was some sexist farrakhan secret we hate yakubs invention of The Black Folk to specifically target women, this sub has definitely made the distinction between identity and material conditions every single time and has not been as forgiving to actual women of color we discuss on here who might seem too lib, or seem too reliant on their identites than they are towards an imaginary white woman they conjured up who reads white fragility and thus our use of karen is too mean to the imaginary GOOD white woman, because if she reads white fragility and can still be called karen, what about all the chapo.chat users who used to say the n word on chat roulette?? will the black people ever like theeemmmmm????
also like... every word created by black people has been stolen and misused by everyone else....its weird to focus on karen when we have watched "woke" "dope" "the bomb" "ice in my veins" the n word, "homie" and other uses of AAVE be run into the ground. at least karen as i said before, is aiming at the particular insidious violence white women innact on black people. it feels suspicious considering how everything we do is stolen to zero in on one of the few words that still point out white racism.....all while using rhetoric meant to bargain with the word and the black people using it, parsing through who can be a karen based on whether they have EmPaThY and posted a black square on insta last year....its giving pathetic and guilty and again is contributing to the coddling white women and white women racism experiences when we talk about racism.
Why else is that when we do the whole karen is sexist thing we never acknowledge where the term came from and the racial violence that its meant to point out and the racial violence we witness when karen is often being brought up. when we focus on our imaginary white women feelings (which by the way, the original karen type isnt imaginary. we saw amy cooper in central park, the crazy white woman in SF who in response SF passed the K.A.R.E.N. law to prevent people from using the cops as their customer service mediators ---like the Karen as we know it isnt even imaginary, but notice how some people in this thread went there.....) above all else its hard to feel like yall arent ratfucking (when you go there, not you OP, and not those simply being like: karen could maybe be sexist...although i judge those who have brought that up but havent brought up the history)
lets also not forget how white people often pathologize black culture (including music) and black people (particularly men) to be extra sexist and extra trad......hmmmmmmmmm
but regardless, please dont take down "karen" under my womanhood (a womanhood of which the sexism i experience is partially defined by white women violence), taking down karen because it might be mean to the wittle white woman without talking about my struggles as a black woman is sexist and racist. (which based on some of the commenters' logic, seems like i won here because the context of a term/situation doesnt matter if it seems mean to a marginalized person right?)
i think the n word discourse has shown that its probably not the best to problematize a black term aimed to acknowledge and call out black oppression based on white people stealing it and misusing it
Some excellent points here