When will be your "this is the last fucking time I'm voting for the 'lesser of two evils', then I don't care after that, let this country burn to the ground"? For me, this is basically it. This is last election I'm going for that " lesser of two evils" bullshit. After that I'm done. It's just pointless. Let's hear it.
I vote third party every time. I don't care if they're more likely to lose, the whole point of a democracy is that we vote honestly and that every voice actually serves as a voice which goes against the herd mentality. So I've never voted for the "lesser of two evils", I've been voting for actual good people every time because they friggin' earned it, not the people who have leveraged into victory based on the fact they have victory in the first place.
Better question for the "lesser of two evils" crowd: What's the endgame here? In my experience, the strategy is to try to hold together enough of a Democratic voting bloc by browbeating and berating leftists to keep the greater evil out of office, and the result is that politics has marched steadily to the right, Now we're teetering on the edge of fascism, with a Democratic President supporting genocide in another country and breaking strikes like he was ol' Ronnie. We can't go on like this. It can't work forever. Eventually, the threat of a fascist getting into office will be a reality; they only have to win once, and we have to win every time. It could very well be 2024 that they do it.
At what point do we attempt something better? As commentators like Thomas Pikkety have written, there are important issues that transcend the traditional left-right spectrum, that could peel away a lot of working-class voters who feel abandoned by the neo-liberal policies of the Democratic Party.
Do we just keep voting for the lesser evil in the hopes that we can do it long enough for some unforeseen, future political shift to just sort of happen before the lesser evil is also a fascist?
I suppose it'll continue until enough people believe that it's possible for a third party to win.
I think ranked choice voting would make it much simpler to foment that change. People need to be able to trust that breaking from the party line has a real chance of success, but that can't happen without demonstrating support.
If we can't have real ranked choice voting, a third party could build a website to let people coordinate votes according to ranked choice, and hopefully carry the result as a unified bloc to the polls. Have an agreement that if a certain threshold of participation is met, vote for the ranked choice result. Otherwise, lesser of 2 evils.
The first-past-the-post vote counting all but guarantees a two-party system, but the thing is, it doesn't have to be the same two parties that we're used to. If it did, we'd still have Whigs. If coordination of masses of people online works, we could just replace one of the two parties outright.
Perhaps. In theory, you're definitely right. I just feel that this is something where building the momentum during a single election cycle isn't feasible. The most likely result of voting for a third party without laying this groundwork would be splitting the vote and giving a landslide victory to the greater of the two evils.
Formally organising online would make it possible to demonstrate how much support each candidate actually has without giving an official vote to a candidate that the general public isn't confident enough to vote for. Watching participation grow and third parties receive substantial semi-official support could build excitement and lead to a third party being trusted to have the sway to win.
I'd love to be proven wrong though. If we can organize enough support for a third party within a single election cycle that it's reasonable to risk voting for that candidate, I'm open to it. I already have too much on my plate, but if no one has built this service by the time I have energy for it, I'll definitely be thinking about it
I couldn't do it again after 99% Hitler broke his promise to be 1% less Hitler.
It was 2004.
Voting the lesser evil is a downward spiral of evil. If no candidates can meet the minimum standard, abstain on that race and fill out the rest of the ballot. It sucks, but it sucks a lot less than enabling whichever monster can be slightly less monstrous for the ten months before the election.
Federally, ship has already sailed. I'll still vote for the lesser evil on local matters, as I like school funding
Don't say that, you're going to be chased out very soon by the "fall in line" mob. They're fucking worse than Republicans. If you don't fall in line, they'll eat you alive.
i dont vote. somewhere along the line some dumbass thought it would be a really good idea to pull jury nominees from the voter pool. jury duty is a complete waste of my time, it pays absolute dogshit, and I've never really had much trust in the justice system to begin with - so I am not registered to vote in the state I live in. the week before I plan on leaving for greener pastures, I will register to vote.
😂 You almost got me. I'll stop voting, too, in the near the future if this shit continues
Very true. Both parties are just used to their base voting no matter what.
You're probably gonna continue reading doomer posts on the internet, getting grey hairs and high blood pressure
But the one chance you can do something to change things
You just won't?
sigh
Your vote matters just as much as everyone else's. So you're saying nobody's vote matters? Clearly that's not the case. Unless there's something special about your vote compared to everyone else's. I understand what you're getting at, but the conclusion that you shouldn't vote is flawed.
Your vote doesn't decide the election on its own. Does that mean it doesn't matter? Absolutely not.
sigh
Le epic redditer moment
Your vote matters just as much as everyone else's.
Unless you live in non-swing state in which case your vote literally means nothing as you're a minority voter for at least the next 30 years. Even then, the vote of someone in a state with a small population gives more of a share of electoral college votes than a populous state. Plus the whole 2 senators a state thing etc etc.
Your whole position is flawed. You're reversing the responsibility of ensuring people get to vote. Politicians are well paid professionals whose entire job is to ensure that their political plans come to fruition. Blaming some doomer online for the failures of the party is completely missing the point.
Le epic redditer moment
Look dude we're both insufferable, let's stay on topic
If you believe your vote doesn't matter, then you believe nobody's vote matters. Clearly that's not true. I get that voting for the less popular candidate won't win the election for you. Boo hoo. Don't conflate "losing the election" with "not mattering" though.
If you believe your vote doesn't matter, you either believe:
- all votes are not equal (within a given election) or
- the elections are entirely rigged
If you believe your vote doesn't matter, you either believe: all votes are not equal (within a given election).
Yeah, like I explained in my original comment in great detail exactly how and why certain votes are not equal.
I struck a nerve with the redditor comment considering you responded to that 4 word sentence but not the paragraph explaining basic American Electoral structure.
You fool! Youve taken the bait. I am 3 moves ahead and your fate is sealed
What makes those votes unequal?
You fool! Youve taken the bait. I am 3 moves ahead and your fate is sealed
Grown adult saying this btw. God, I was less cringe in high school.
the elections are entirely rigged
DING DING DING! One hand washes the other, the Overton Window ratchets to the right with no pushback from the democrats, and this was ALL rigged from the start to ensure the settlers never had to give up the power they stole, raped, murdered, and genocided for. The problem is, you can never accept this answer; because it would mean confronting the difficult idea that everything you were ever taught as a child in the west was a fucking lie, meant to keep you thoughtlessly benefiting off their system.
And since you are benefiting, and have been benefiting for so long, you'll do any thing, and throw any one under the bus to keep those benefits pouring. I don't even know why I'm wasting the electrons when I know you're just going to posture like the insufferable liberal smuggard you've come off as thus far, I'm going to ache for the death of your country and the falsehoods your leaders claim as morals, and we'll both have gotten nowhere but closer to the heat death of the universe-- or maybe just the climate apocalypse that your leaders seem hellbent on ignoring as we sail right past 2C this year. 25 years ahead of schedule.
Your vote matters just as much as everyone else's.
That is mathematically not true, the electoral college exists. Also, the candidate with less votes than their opponent has won 1/3 of US elections in the 21st century. So even if the voters go out and vote, there is a 1/3 chance the person that gets the most votes will lose the election in modern US politics.
Fuckers learned nothing from 2016 and want us to skip merrily down their spiral of ignorance and evil right along with them, ignoring the evidence of our eyes the entire way
That's fair. I'm just trying to say, consider how you direct that resentment. It might be far healthier in the long run to limit how much you consume news media, rather than swearing off voting
It should have been in the 80's. If those lesser evil folk bit the bullet and refused to vote for whatever shitty candidate they had at that point them maybe the Democratic party wouldn't feel so comfortable shoveling Biden down our throats. It is 100% the fault of past Democratic party voters that we're in this situation and it could have been avoided.
In a purely 4-year cycle, it is better to vote for a Dem because they'll be slightly better. But since we repeated that 10x already, the Dem has gotten to be so horrific that it isn't worth it anymore. It's like trying to decide how much grain to use to feed a village and how much to plant for the next season. In the short term, it's better to feed the people and reduce the amount planted next year. But we did that so much that now there's no more food.
Boomers fucked Millennials and Gen Z with climate change. Gen X and Millennials fucked over Gen Z over with lesser evil voting.
Two cycles ago. Motherfuck Amerika, motherfuck the electors putting their thumbs on the scales to invalidate millions of votes nationwide, and motherfuck everyone who justifies propping it up too. I'm not cosiging genocidal colonizers; if that means the country falls, then the country deserved it. Die nameless.
Until it actually boils over or we get rid of first past the post (and you'll need MASSIVE protests to do the latter.)
Fuck accelerationists. They're either dumbfucks who think their Apocalypse Badass Man fantasies will come true (and contrary to popular belief this person absolutely exists on the left,) or yuppies who know they have an easy out in the form of either a work visa in somewhere like Canada or leeching from a developing country working remotely and not contributing to where they live at all (and so many of these yuppies are self-proclaimed collectivists.) The rest of us are getting out of here in a casket or a refugee boat if it boils over. So how about we take at least a modicum of effort to take care of our society. Voting is the bare minimum.
