Is there anything that can be learned from cases like Buttigeg and Harris where at least one of their parents was ostensibly a proponent of Marx? Have any of you known or had communist parents?

I'm trying to avoid my own kids becoming reactionary and the only thing I know to do to avoid that is show them internal consistency with my own views(valuing consent, consistency, openness, compassion, reason, creativity, and an unbreakable will), educate them on class conflict and historical materialism, and give them opportunities to reinforce the innate kindness within them while also introducing them to various other groups so that they grow up to feel a human connection to anyone regardless of differences in age, gender, nationality, etc.

I'll be closely involved in their school work to help counter imperialist propaganda in their public school education.

I'll be involving them in programs like 4H so they don't become alienated from the means of production and their environment.

I'll be insisting they get part time service industry jobs when they're old enough to help radicalize them against the inhumanities of capitalist exploitation

Additionally, the only communities I can think to raise them as a part of are SRA, and UU. If y'all have any suggestions I would love to hear them.

  • duderium [he/him]
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    edit-2
    3 years ago

    I started a thread about this awhile back if you want to peruse: https://hexbear.net/post/67602

    Something I've learned since then comes from Todd McGowan on the Why Theory podcast. I think he has teenage twins so he talks about parenting now and then. He basically said that we always have to consider subjective factors. Basically, if you have two communist parents, and their kids grow up to be communists, you'll say it's because of the parents. In another situation, if you have two communist parents, and their kids grow up into libs, you'll also say it's because of their parents.

    Off the top of my head, I'm honestly having trouble thinking of communist parents whose kids grew up into communists. In general it would seem like noteworthy communists dedicate themselves to the movement at the expense of their families, with predictable results. But I could be wrong.

    McGowan has also said—and I don't necessarily agree here—that if you raise your kids too well, they basically grow up into...lazy nobodies? Like I guess that means that all the movers and shakers in history were ultimately just trying to prove something to their parents, who neglected or abused them. I don't know.

    I have young-ish kids. We talk all the time. I'm not a perfect parent, but I'm definitely there for them. I'm working now on not bossing them around all the time, on letting them do their own thing, and also letting them know that I believe in them. I'm reading "Inside the Battle of Algiers," and the author, a revolutionary, constantly talks about how her dad (who was not a revolutionary) nonetheless told her, over and over again, that he had complete confidence in her. I don't think my parents did a terrible job with me, but they never said anything like that—not once—and even today act like it's a surprise if I can tie my own shoes.

    Anyway, my kids' radicalism honestly makes me feel like a liberal sometimes. I have to occasionally remind them to make sure—contrary to Mao's wishes—to censor themselves around normies, although if some political incident ever comes up between my kids and their school (for instance), I will support my kids. I've observed them generally keeping their mouths shut regarding politics around people. And I mean, they're also kids, with all that term implies.

    My wife is an anti-communist Social Democrat. She thinks like a Marxist all the time (money = power), but gets angry if I call her ideas Marxism. (She doesn't give a fuck about Biden or the Democrats, supports unions, is anti-imperialist, supports imprisoning most elected leaders in "democratic" countries, and has attended protests with me, so she's pretty cool most of the the time.) She doesn't want our kids to be little commies though. Sometimes she'll talk with them and just basically be like: communism bad, capitalism good. Thus far her approach has had, if anything, the opposite of the intended effect. I think it's obvious, but soft power is an incredibly powerful weapon. The fact that Hollywood, for instance, churns out so many movies and TV shows which just pretend that this fucked up world of ours in the imperial core is normal and nothing can be done about it probably makes far more of a difference than all the cops in the USA.

    I have to see what happens when my kids become teenagers and adults. I assume that they'll think everything I say and do at that point is unbearable. As others have said here, you only have so much control.

    I think that, sooner or later, another uprising will begin in the USA. Maybe it will achieve more than 2020. At that point, my kids will probably be teenagers or young adults. I suspect that they will want to take risks for the cause. I obviously don't want them risking imprisonment, violence, or death, but isn't that also an example of my own liberalism? Why should other people's kids have to take all the dangerous risks? Bringing down capitalism in the USA is a truly massive, epochal undertaking. All of us are going to have to work together and not all of us are going to make it. But then this also sounds like insanity—like I'm pushing my kids into some kind of death cult.

    So yeah. There are twists and turns everywhere and we are not fully in control.

    If you check out Reich's The Mass Psychology of Fascism, one of his many theories there is that people's attitude toward the state or the status quo comes from their attitude toward their parents. That, basically, having abusive parents and growing up rural, middle class, and as a member of the majority ethnic group almost guarantees that you will be a fascist (although again, there are subjective factors). Reich basically advocates the kind of sexual freedom we are working toward in the USA right now: let consenting adults enjoy having sex however they want to have it, because if they suppress their sexual urges it fucks them up in all kinds of ways. You can see how this plays out, for instance, in case after notorious case of fervent homophobic priests who are discovered to be fucking male sex workers like crazy. It's obviously not ridiculous to pay attention to the sexual element when considering people's political beliefs.

    I'm thinking now of when I was hanging out at a playground a couple of years ago with some normies, and hearing one of the mothers, a fellow millennial, tell her daughter to act "ladylike." I couldn't believe I was hearing this word from someone my age. This woman is honestly pretty nice, but is like, textbook case of petite bourgeois in danger of proletarianization, and man the guys she hung around with—her ex-husband and her new boyfriend—were really, really not good people. (The ex-husband was the dangerous kid you never let yourself be alone with back in elementary school; the new boyfriend hung a fucking Gadsden flag outside of their house.) Nice as such people can be on a personal level, we all know that being a normie means you are either a fascist or highly at risk of becoming one, and I think looking into the sexual pathology here would just yield mountains of evidence.

      • duderium [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Frequently saying fuck the police, fuck America, fuck this shithole country, and how they want to burn all the American flags on display around here. They're obviously getting it from me, but to hear these things spoken by children can be pretty striking. I'm also their dad, so I don't want them getting into trouble.

        What's funny though is that they're all talk, at the moment, anyway. I try to do a little praxis every day, and this has taken the form of occasional shitty anti-capitalist graffiti. One of my kids was with me when—after making sure the coast was clear—I changed the selection of a local book club from some boring novel to The Communist Manifesto. My little dude was freaking out the whole time and telling me to stop, even though this definitely was not a big deal. (I was writing on a paper.) It's pretty remarkable to see the contradictions play out like that, like how much influence I have with them: being unafraid to say "fuck America" with your dad, but being terrified of writing some pretty harmless and shitty graffiti in the real world.

        We also didn't get caught and the book club took down the paper within a few days, which I also found pretty funny. I was hoping that a bunch of old millionaire white ladies would show up to their meeting with half of them clutching a copy of Marx.

    • carbohydra [des/pair]
      ·
      3 years ago

      But what if the imperative to fuck everything that moves is just the authoritarian mindset in another form? Are not incels driven to fascism by the shame of not meeting the mark?

      • duderium [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        You’re fucked if you do, fucked if you don’t.

        I don’t think we need to fuck everything that moves, just like we don’t need to eat everything that moves. We must find a rational middle ground :pete:

    • star_wraith [he/him]
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      3 years ago

      I’m reading “Inside the Battle of Algiers,”

      Oh this reminded me, I think it's a great idea to have books like The People's History of the United States, David Graeber's Debt book, or other physical books that are relatively easy for a say a younger teen to grasp on your bookshelf. I think if your kid is a reader, they will naturally have an interest in reading the books you read. I know I did with my dad.

      • NeverGoOutside [any]
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        edit-2
        3 years ago

        My dad never read a book in his life. We never had a bookshelf. Hahaha. And look how great I turned out! Good thing there were political screed in the liner notes of the punk CDs I bought.

    • black_mold_futures [none/use name]
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      3 years ago

      My wife is an anti-communist Social Democrat.

      *moderate fascist

      She thinks like a Marxist all the time (money = power)

      please read Marx

      • duderium [he/him]
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        3 years ago

        Sorry, ownership of the means of production = power.

        I am surrounded by libs who believe that people are guided by ideals of liberty and that the average homeless person has the same amount of power as Jeff Bezos so this is honestly a step up in my opinion.

    • nice [they/them]
      hexagon
      ·
      3 years ago

      This is very reassuring since I'm in a somewhat similar situation where my partner agrees with every point I make regarding food, housing, healthcare, education, acab, anti-colonialism, anti -imperialism, systemic racism, environmentalism and the problem that comes from having a society where a working class does not own the means of production, BUT only if I call all that shit socialism, not communism because communism bad, and they're also pretty anti gun but at least they consistent and don't think cops should have guns either. They want to be rich though, because they'd rather escape oppression by having enough wealth to not have to sell their labor anymore. So, kinda sus but not at all interested in teaching our kids political philosophy nor in interfering with my education plans for them so mostly benign parenting-wise from my perspective and potentially a useful foil considering the kids already don't like them.

      I'm glad to hear a similar situation works out for you. I will definitely take what you have shared and use it to improve my own parenting.

      • duderium [he/him]
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        3 years ago

        Yeah, I once asked my wife, who currently benefits a great deal from belonging to a union, if she would support the formation of a union at her workplace, like assuming none had ever been formed there before. Would she support the workers, or the bosses? She said of course she would support the workers. Then I was like, okay, what about just like one big union for the whole world? That's basically what communism is. (Yes, I know it's not exactly that.) She just rolled her eyes and the conversation was over.

        I want to believe that as things generally get more fucked up, that more people will be converted to anti-capitalism, but the ability people have to blame individual bad actors when the socioeconomic system they favor is at fault is pretty impressive. I think my wife's anti-communism also comes not only from childhood abuse, which she suffered a great deal of, but also the political environment she spent most of her life experiencing in South Korea. Anti-communism is a thing, there, where it is actually illegal to be a communist (although I don't think the government has prosecuted anyone for quite some time), while in America, for most of my life, communism was almost never discussed at all. Until 2015, it was just something occasionally mentioned in the background, an uninteresting failure.

        It sounds like our partners have a lot in common, ideologically. I don't know. Things are working out for the time being, but who the hell knows what's in store for all of us?