I admit that my vote for Biden is a portion of the reason Biden’s in office, and Biden being in office is a portion of the reason the USA is funding genocide. No I’m not fucking proud of it.
What’s the viable AND better alternative to Biden in 2024?
Withholding your vote is the only way to push the democrats left. Otherwise they know you're their little piggies who'll lick their heels and vote for them just because they're not Republicans despite the growing lack of material difference. You're their subs. Make them either work earn your vote or perish. Don't you see the pattern occurring again and again since Clinton? The dems move right and hold try to hold the left hostage with the Republicans as a threat. Things were pretty much the same under Trump as Biden, don't be a coward and hold your party accountable. They don't deserve your vote for being better than Trump.
Edit: also, die in a house fire you annoying little dweeb
It absolutely sucks but voting locally is a way you can improve your ability to vote. Incremental improvements towards leftist policies at the local level will sway more people to leftist policies, resulting in greater support overall towards the left.
Just because there isn't a better option doesn't mean you have to choose a bad option that's literally the deffinition of the illusion of choice.
If somebody told me theybwere either going to slap me in the face or kick me in the balls and I said "what about I pick neither of those things" would you also show up to smugly lecture me
Especially if I was using the time to do things that would actually protect people from the consequences like setting up communal support structures to get together and make sure nobody gets slapped or kicked
Okay, are you using your time to set up communal support structures for people? Or are you just using the amount of time you save by not voting (which is generally 5 minutes saved for every 12 months lived) to do that?
Also, voting for Biden is like getting punched in the face. Voting for Trump is like getting punched in the face and having your right to vote for anything (face punches or any possible alternative) revoked. Not voting for either is like saying “eh, they’re both just the same to me”
You dipshits realize you sound dumb as hell when you say that if Trump gets elected nobody will vote again right.
You said the exact same thing last time and then somehow managed to lose an election to him thanks to brilliant electoral strategies like not campaigning in keybstates and then he was voted out 4 years later.
Also I am not going to be lectured on how effective or thorough my communal support systems are by some dumbshit lib lecturing me on how important it is to vote for a Democrat presidential candidate as a resident of New York.
If Jesus Christ came down waving a black and red flag it would still be a waste of time to vote in federal elections, let alone taking time out of my day to do it for somebody actively carrying out a genocide.
I didn’t say anything about the effectiveness of the communal support structures you mentioned. I think spending time putting effort into that is extremely valuable and important.
You said that if you didn’t waste time voting you’d have more time to put your efforts into communal support structures so I challenged you on that and you didn’t respond to that challenge.
So again I ask: do you put your time into developing or reinforcing communal support structures for other people?
I do not but I consider that a failure on my own part. I’ve been looking for ways I can help my community which won’t burn me out quickly on top of my dreary job.
I understand being angry about the state of American politics but I don’t understand why you’re venting your anger at me. I’ve been continuing this conversation because I legitimately would like to understand your point of view and potentially be persuaded.
Because for somebody who wants to understand my point of view you sure are spending a lot of time writing replies after I explicitly stated it three times.
Electoralism is pointless at anything above a county level, national democrats aren't any better than Republicans, and even if they were the chances of them learning how to stop enthusiastically jumping on rakes is slim. You've done more to reduce human suffering by giving a homeless person a dollar than any kind of electoralism the DNC wouldn't immediatly put out a statement condemning.
Yes, no duh, but I mean options that are practical for me to do until other people finally agree to organize/unionize and make everything better for each other
I have a single vote that I can use in the 2024 presidential election. There are two ways that vote can go. One is a vote for the funding of the extermination of the Palestinian people, and the other is a vote for the funding of the extermination of the Palestinian people AND the extermination of whatever shred of American democracy there is left.
Tell me, is there some other way I can use my vote that has a good chance of making a difference or are we all just as fucked as it seems like we are?
There aren't any shreds of American democracy and there never have been. I don't know what country you live in, but I'm an American and we've never had democracy here.
I personally am far from saying there is no harm in voting for Biden, but because of your comment I have to ask you: what harm is there in voting for Biden if there is no shred of democracy in the USA?
Well let's see since the last election when we were told we had to vote for Biden or else we'd lose abortion, trans people would have rights stripped and we'd stop doing covid relief we elected Biden and then all those things happened and we started doing the worse genocide of a generation.
Dems keep insisting they're the lesser of two evils but then completely fail to prevent the greater evil when given power electorally.
This meme and this thread is not about local elections. Yes every serious communist participates in local elections (when there is something real to vote for)
You were faulting Biden’s election for the abolition of abortion and the removal of trans rights when I’m pretty sure those are both indirect results of Trump being elected. Trump gave conservatives a majority hold in the supreme court which overturned Roe v. Wade, and the emboldening and legitimizing of radical right-wing politicians led to the increased removal of trans rights.
What did you expect Biden to do to stop either of those things? I’m not defending the atrocities Biden has done and supports, but fault him for the correct things, not things that Trump caused.
Yea I'm in New York state so unless I ball up my ballot and throw it at Biden so hard he dies my vote will literally have zero effect on the outcome.
So I vote for whoever is running against Steffanick isf they aren't a genocidal lib (they usually get about 12% of the vote, showing the likelihood of a good person ever actually getting elected) and then vote for whoever doesn't want to get rid of public education for local elections but that's usually somebodys aunt who agreed to run so a Maga lunatic can't eliminate school lunches and bus routes.
But check this out, none of those people have the ability, intention, or motivation to help murder thousands of innocent Palestinians.
It's actually not hard to not support genocide, unless you're a lib of course.
You could vote for somebody who doesn't support genocie and vocally declare you won't vote for anybody doing a genocide until the dems run somebody who doesn't do genocide.
I know not actively supporting genocide is an unreasonable bar for liberals but you asked.
Biden and Trump are equally evil and either of them being president is a disaster for the world. They're exactly the same in terms of political outcome and I'm never issuing support for either, both are imperialist and responsible for genocide. I'm never voting for either, even if it would simply be ceremonial.
And don't even come with me with I'll be responsible for Trump then. I don't care. I do not see any difference between the two. I live in Texas anyway so my presidential vote simply doesn't matter.
The only difference I've seen between Trump and Biden is now that Biden is president libs scream at progressives to stop complaining because it makes them look bad.
Well that and when republican was president dems said tou had tonvote for them or else we'd lose abortion access, transgender people would lose rights, and covid would run rampant.
So we all voted for Biden and now there's no abortion protection, Trans people are loosing rights, we ignored the oandemic and cut all relief efforts, and now we're supporting and funding the worst genocide in a generation.
If you're going to argue you're the lesser of two evils you might want to try being less evil.
When Trump was president Pelosi was dressing up in fucking African garments pretending to support those ideas.
Bidens president and they're all voting to establish that criticizing Isreal is antisemitism.
Rank and file liberals are literally worse under a democratic president.
You’ve never chosen the lesser of two evils because you didn’t have any other practical options?
Ok genocide enjoyer
Oh, in that case you’ve convinced me. Solid point, and well-articulated at that.
— _ —
Nobody's trying to convince you, we're several decades past expecting liberals to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
I admit that my vote for Biden is a portion of the reason Biden’s in office, and Biden being in office is a portion of the reason the USA is funding genocide. No I’m not fucking proud of it.
What’s the viable AND better alternative to Biden in 2024?
Don't vote
How is that better?
The results are the same but you don't have to do an extra errand that day. With the time saved you could watch like 3 episodes of star trek
Voting takes me 5 minutes, especially since I get my ballot in the mail.
I guess Star Trek episodes are a lot shorter than I thought
Withholding your vote is the only way to push the democrats left. Otherwise they know you're their little piggies who'll lick their heels and vote for them just because they're not Republicans despite the growing lack of material difference. You're their subs. Make them either work earn your vote or perish. Don't you see the pattern occurring again and again since Clinton? The dems move right and hold try to hold the left hostage with the Republicans as a threat. Things were pretty much the same under Trump as Biden, don't be a coward and hold your party accountable. They don't deserve your vote for being better than Trump.
Edit: also, die in a house fire you annoying little dweeb
How I feel like every VBNMW nerd in this thread.
Voting takes me several hours out of work. Work that I need to do to keep my roof and lights on, it also eats into actual direct action work I do IRL.
Voting is fucking worthless except if there is some exceptionally cool local city council person or w/e to vote for.
It absolutely sucks but voting locally is a way you can improve your ability to vote. Incremental improvements towards leftist policies at the local level will sway more people to leftist policies, resulting in greater support overall towards the left.
Yes and this is not about voting locally its about not voting for a genocidal monster.
Just because there isn't a better option doesn't mean you have to choose a bad option that's literally the deffinition of the illusion of choice.
If somebody told me theybwere either going to slap me in the face or kick me in the balls and I said "what about I pick neither of those things" would you also show up to smugly lecture me
Especially if I was using the time to do things that would actually protect people from the consequences like setting up communal support structures to get together and make sure nobody gets slapped or kicked
Okay, are you using your time to set up communal support structures for people? Or are you just using the amount of time you save by not voting (which is generally 5 minutes saved for every 12 months lived) to do that?
Also, voting for Biden is like getting punched in the face. Voting for Trump is like getting punched in the face and having your right to vote for anything (face punches or any possible alternative) revoked. Not voting for either is like saying “eh, they’re both just the same to me”
You dipshits realize you sound dumb as hell when you say that if Trump gets elected nobody will vote again right.
You said the exact same thing last time and then somehow managed to lose an election to him thanks to brilliant electoral strategies like not campaigning in keybstates and then he was voted out 4 years later.
Also I am not going to be lectured on how effective or thorough my communal support systems are by some dumbshit lib lecturing me on how important it is to vote for a Democrat presidential candidate as a resident of New York.
If Jesus Christ came down waving a black and red flag it would still be a waste of time to vote in federal elections, let alone taking time out of my day to do it for somebody actively carrying out a genocide.
I didn’t say anything about the effectiveness of the communal support structures you mentioned. I think spending time putting effort into that is extremely valuable and important.
You said that if you didn’t waste time voting you’d have more time to put your efforts into communal support structures so I challenged you on that and you didn’t respond to that challenge.
So again I ask: do you put your time into developing or reinforcing communal support structures for other people?
I do not but I consider that a failure on my own part. I’ve been looking for ways I can help my community which won’t burn me out quickly on top of my dreary job.
Fuck off nerd go pearl clutch elsewhere.
I'm saying take all the effort and time you would waste worrying about the futility of electoral politics and go organize a food drive.
I understand being angry about the state of American politics but I don’t understand why you’re venting your anger at me. I’ve been continuing this conversation because I legitimately would like to understand your point of view and potentially be persuaded.
Because for somebody who wants to understand my point of view you sure are spending a lot of time writing replies after I explicitly stated it three times.
Electoralism is pointless at anything above a county level, national democrats aren't any better than Republicans, and even if they were the chances of them learning how to stop enthusiastically jumping on rakes is slim. You've done more to reduce human suffering by giving a homeless person a dollar than any kind of electoralism the DNC wouldn't immediatly put out a statement condemning.
🤓
There are, in fact, other practical options
Yes, no duh, but I mean options that are practical for me to do until other people finally agree to organize/unionize and make everything better for each other
Not voting for the extermination of the Palestinian people is a good compromise measure until then
I have a single vote that I can use in the 2024 presidential election. There are two ways that vote can go. One is a vote for the funding of the extermination of the Palestinian people, and the other is a vote for the funding of the extermination of the Palestinian people AND the extermination of whatever shred of American democracy there is left.
Tell me, is there some other way I can use my vote that has a good chance of making a difference or are we all just as fucked as it seems like we are?
There aren't any shreds of American democracy and there never have been. I don't know what country you live in, but I'm an American and we've never had democracy here.
I personally am far from saying there is no harm in voting for Biden, but because of your comment I have to ask you: what harm is there in voting for Biden if there is no shred of democracy in the USA?
Well let's see since the last election when we were told we had to vote for Biden or else we'd lose abortion, trans people would have rights stripped and we'd stop doing covid relief we elected Biden and then all those things happened and we started doing the worse genocide of a generation.
Dems keep insisting they're the lesser of two evils but then completely fail to prevent the greater evil when given power electorally.
Do you vote in local elections?
This meme and this thread is not about local elections. Yes every serious communist participates in local elections (when there is something real to vote for)
You were faulting Biden’s election for the abolition of abortion and the removal of trans rights when I’m pretty sure those are both indirect results of Trump being elected. Trump gave conservatives a majority hold in the supreme court which overturned Roe v. Wade, and the emboldening and legitimizing of radical right-wing politicians led to the increased removal of trans rights.
What did you expect Biden to do to stop either of those things? I’m not defending the atrocities Biden has done and supports, but fault him for the correct things, not things that Trump caused.
Hey, if you're not trans, please stop using us as a political cudgel. The mainline democrats hate us too.
I apologize. I was responding to the points of the person higher up in this thread.
Yea I'm in New York state so unless I ball up my ballot and throw it at Biden so hard he dies my vote will literally have zero effect on the outcome.
So I vote for whoever is running against Steffanick isf they aren't a genocidal lib (they usually get about 12% of the vote, showing the likelihood of a good person ever actually getting elected) and then vote for whoever doesn't want to get rid of public education for local elections but that's usually somebodys aunt who agreed to run so a Maga lunatic can't eliminate school lunches and bus routes.
But check this out, none of those people have the ability, intention, or motivation to help murder thousands of innocent Palestinians.
It's actually not hard to not support genocide, unless you're a lib of course.
There's harm to my soul because I'd be putting down ceremonial support for a perpetrator of genocide. There's no benefit to voting for Biden.
You could vote for somebody who doesn't support genocie and vocally declare you won't vote for anybody doing a genocide until the dems run somebody who doesn't do genocide.
I know not actively supporting genocide is an unreasonable bar for liberals but you asked.
Stay home and jack off?
Biden and Trump are equally evil and either of them being president is a disaster for the world. They're exactly the same in terms of political outcome and I'm never issuing support for either, both are imperialist and responsible for genocide. I'm never voting for either, even if it would simply be ceremonial.
And don't even come with me with I'll be responsible for Trump then. I don't care. I do not see any difference between the two. I live in Texas anyway so my presidential vote simply doesn't matter.
You keep saying lesser of two evils.
The only difference I've seen between Trump and Biden is now that Biden is president libs scream at progressives to stop complaining because it makes them look bad.
Well that and when republican was president dems said tou had tonvote for them or else we'd lose abortion access, transgender people would lose rights, and covid would run rampant.
So we all voted for Biden and now there's no abortion protection, Trans people are loosing rights, we ignored the oandemic and cut all relief efforts, and now we're supporting and funding the worst genocide in a generation.
If you're going to argue you're the lesser of two evils you might want to try being less evil.
When Trump was president Pelosi was dressing up in fucking African garments pretending to support those ideas.
Bidens president and they're all voting to establish that criticizing Isreal is antisemitism.
Rank and file liberals are literally worse under a democratic president.
Staying home is practical as hell yo