Exactly! If we're judging people for practical purposes like this then great. If we're judging people as big idiots just for the purposes of sniffing our own farts, leave me out.
It's realist. These are the material conditions we live in.
Keep organizing where you can but the US is never going to have a socialist movement, not in its current state anyway. You can still do things to help people and try and push back a little against the imperialist war machine but you'll never have the broad support of the USs labor aristocracy.
the US is never going to have a socialist movement
No realistic analysis can produce such an absolute conclusion. We're in largely uncharted territory for a dozen reasons, and socialists have pulled off all sorts of unlikely victories before.
It's realistic to note the many difficulties between us and our goal, but it's defeatist to say "yeah have fun doing little things but you're going to lose no matter what."
Not to mention when the people got a sniff of a Social Democrat talking about class issues, his supporter base almost toppled a 30-year political dynasty in the Democratic Primary.
Imagine if actual revolutionaries could be heard and seen at the scale Bernie was.
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy take decisive, terroristic action against the reaction from the very beginning, the reactionary influence in the election will already have been destroyed.
Judging people for their susceptibility to propaganda is only useful to the extent it informs who can be brought to our side.
Exactly! If we're judging people for practical purposes like this then great. If we're judging people as big idiots just for the purposes of sniffing our own farts, leave me out.
Counterpoint: I enjoying shitting on stupid people. I live in hellworld and will take whatever fun digs I can get.
Ah, so you're just an asshole.
Yes?
Do you know what site you're on? We're fucking assholes all the time. We literally have are own lingo and custom emojis for mocking people.
Burgerbrain
Westoid, kkkracker 
I'm not an asshole.
You sure about that? If I surveyed everyone you knew?
No.
This is indistinguishable from libs saying you have to be respectful to the chuds.
Yes.
And the conclusion for the western left is "hardly anyone". Can't form a proletariat party with bourgeois proletarians.
This is just defeatist.
It's realist. These are the material conditions we live in.
Keep organizing where you can but the US is never going to have a socialist movement, not in its current state anyway. You can still do things to help people and try and push back a little against the imperialist war machine but you'll never have the broad support of the USs labor aristocracy.
No realistic analysis can produce such an absolute conclusion. We're in largely uncharted territory for a dozen reasons, and socialists have pulled off all sorts of unlikely victories before.
It's realistic to note the many difficulties between us and our goal, but it's defeatist to say "yeah have fun doing little things but you're going to lose no matter what."
Not to mention when the people got a sniff of a Social Democrat talking about class issues, his supporter base almost toppled a 30-year political dynasty in the Democratic Primary.
Imagine if actual revolutionaries could be heard and seen at the scale Bernie was.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Oh wait, you're serious, let me laugh harder.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
>Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. If the forces of democracy take decisive, terroristic action against the reaction from the very beginning, the reactionary influence in the election will already have been destroyed.
Karl Marx: Source
Bernie's a lib, Marx is referring to actual socialist candidates here
We're on the same page. Bernie has been a huge disappointment.
America is a huge disappointment
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