https://www.restaurantbusinessonline.com/workforce/casa-bonita-workers-demand-return-tipping#:~:text=Shortly%20before%20opening%2C%20Casa%20Bonita's,wage%20of%20%2430%20per%20hour.

Shortly before opening, Casa Bonita’s new owners Matt Stone and Trey Parker decided to eliminate tipping and instead pay workers a flat wage of $30 per hour.

Now I could be wrong, but getting a an hourly wage as a restaurant worker is FAR better than relying on tips. I feel like either workers in this situation are too obsessed with tips or there’s huge context missing.

    • ElHexo
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      edit-2
      3 months ago

      deleted by creator

    • WalterBongjammin [they/them,comrade/them]
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      11 months ago

      Countries that don't have tipping tend to have sectoral collective bargaining, which (at least ideally) ensures a relatively good wage for all workers in a sector. If there are levels of unionisation/worker organisation that can make this a reality in the US, then go for it. However, in the absence of that Janny's post makes a lot of useful points about the potential effects of a capital-led transition to tip-free work. It strikes me like almost no one in this thread has even read the article that we're all notionally discussing. I admit I don't know what the positions of the presumably numerous US restaurant workers' unions are on these questions, but the article states that these workers were being advised by one and wanted to retain a pooled-tip structure

      • Dolores [love/loves]
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        11 months ago

        the specifics of the situation are both unique and dated. we aren't really talking about a restaurant, it's a low-rent dinner theater/mexploitation gallery that serves food. purchased, refurbished, & re-organized by celebrities with an infinite money tap. so trying to plug it into a general debate around tipping is pretty awkward at best, nevermind these workers are making above-average wages on unusual schedules (the latter of which was my by impression, the actual issue)

        but let's not let that distract us--yes, you're correct, collective bargaining is what makes and keeps wages higher than capitalists like. but while the US doesn't have that, we must recognize that tipping is a tool of the bourgeoisie to offload (and make optional) the compensation of labor. it also helps police labor through the divisions it causes between workers (i.e. this entire thread). the reality is that if Janny's half-measure proposal went through, customers would stop tipping anyway, and eventually this group of workers would have the exact same imperatives and options as anybody else. and like, it's not like tipping is illegal places its not customary, you can give a french waiter extra money if you want.

        • WalterBongjammin [they/them,comrade/them]
          ·
          11 months ago

          Yeah, that's fair, I don't have much of a grasp of the specifics of the case beyond the article. And I agree that tipping is worse than non-tipped waged work under sectoral collective bargaining and that we should have the latter as our goal as long as we remain within a capitalist framework. Indeed, from my experience, in a lot of places where tipping isn't customary and they do have sectoral bargaining waiters take it as something of an affront to be tipped. French waiters are often somewhat offended by attempts to tip them - precisely because it is perceived as an attack on their dignity as workers.

          But I still think that we should be careful in uncritically supporting the abolition of tipping outside of circumstances in which a sector is sufficiently well-organised. We've seen so many examples in the last few decades in which often positive reforms, which were initially demanded by workers, have been co-opted by capital to undermine conditions and wages precisely because those reforms took place in a general context where workers haven't been well-organised enough to defend themselves against the attacks of capital. The demand for flexible working practices/hours in the 1970s and 80s is a good example of this process, where what should have been positive reforms have had extremely mixed results in that they've played a large role in creating conditions of casualisation and mass under-employment. In many sectors, 'flexible working' has meant flexibility to work sporadic hours whenever your boss decides with the knowledge that if you're not sufficiently flexible to their demands you'll stop being given work.

          I also do think that the 'it divides the working class' argument is the weakest one, because what it really ends up expressing is a consoomer mindset that as communists/anarchists we should challenge rather than accept. While I'm sure that our comrades on here are arguing in good faith and have decent reasons for wanting to abolish tipping, this isn't representative of the debate overall. Most of the discourse I've encountered on the topic has been on reddit and is predictably treat-brained. The framing is almost always primarily 'tipping is too expensive!' with questions about the conditions/rights of workers relegated to a secondary position that often feels tacked on to cover that the primary demand is 'I want things to be cheaper even if that means workers are paid less'. You can say this is unfair, but the last 40 years of economic reform have shown us that people who identify more strongly with being a consumer than a worker will buy the cheaper commodity made by workers labouring under worse conditions and less pay 99 times out of 100

          • Dolores [love/loves]
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            edit-2
            11 months ago

            'it divides the working class' argument is the weakest one

            thats not what anyone in this thread was talking about. competition between workers in the same joint for tips and inequities of which employees receive them is how tipping disciplines labor. nothing to do with the customers. the enmity between foh and boh staff repeatedly brought up itt is instructive

            but your concern about 'capitalist managed' transition away from tips is a fantasy. they don't want to get rid of them! they discipline labor and reduce its compensation, we're living capital's dream arrangement. actually operating businesses that dont do tips are isolated ideological/niche cases, not a front for some big project to crush labor power. this south park place's stance is either from the owners being libertarians or some specific peculiarity of the business