Software engineering is almost always about architecture and infrastructure, rarely touches on programming. In fact most software engineers aren't exactly amazing programmers. That still holds true in the US.
Software never gets into any engineering. Even if it's in a car, plane, or maglev train, software makers aren't involved in the legal and ethical regulations and guidelines licensed engineers have to go through. Software workers aren't apprenticed, nor are they tested by the state. The tech industry has grabbed at the term "engineer" just so their unreliable work can at least be legitimized in marketing alone.
software makers aren’t involved in the legal and ethical regulations
This is wrong
guidelines licensed engineers have to go through
This is also wrong
Software workers aren’t apprenticed
This is wrong in a lot of cases
It sounds like you have kind of a chip on your shoulder about this term and are wrong about a lot of things that software engineers do. Just because the solutions designed are not physically real (which especially holds true with infrastructure as code) does not mean that they are not engineered or architected.
If you wish to take "engineer" as a verb then yeah, people engineer and manufacture and plan and whatever. "Engineer" as a noun, or as an occupation, is different. Software "engineers" don't go through FE tests. The legal ramifications are simply not comparable.
I do have a chip on my shoulder because two of my siblings are real engineers, not "techies with degrees and an ethics class maybe".
Oh lord you're gatekeeping something that doesn't even impact you. Literally half the engineers I work with came from other disciplines like electrical or mechanical but ended up in software because they preferred it over their background. What a very odd hill to die on.
Not an odd hill to die on. The names of professions shouldn't be dictated by marketing teams, especially when the names they think of have serious legal implications.
What serious legal implications are you on about? I work with three security teams, an ethics board, and legal. My software doesn't even touch anything that would come close to causing harm, and that's just in my area.
In some states, it's illegal to advertise oneself as an "engineer" if they're not the kind of engineer that is recognized by the NCEES. That's not the norm, usually just falsely claiming to be an engineer is simply annoying and left at that.
I mean, the term has existed since '60s so it's not like this is a marketing thing that's brand new or anything, and the NCEES used to offer it. I dunno if I give a shit what Texas state law says about anything, really. But again I don't get your weird gatekeeping over the term, it sounds kind of like a pet peeve that's not even yours that you've picked up as a cause.
Software engineering is almost always about architecture and infrastructure, rarely touches on programming. In fact most software engineers aren't exactly amazing programmers. That still holds true in the US.
Source: am software engineer at a startup
ok whatever
Software never gets into any engineering. Even if it's in a car, plane, or maglev train, software makers aren't involved in the legal and ethical regulations and guidelines licensed engineers have to go through. Software workers aren't apprenticed, nor are they tested by the state. The tech industry has grabbed at the term "engineer" just so their unreliable work can at least be legitimized in marketing alone.
This is wrong
This is also wrong
This is wrong in a lot of cases
It sounds like you have kind of a chip on your shoulder about this term and are wrong about a lot of things that software engineers do. Just because the solutions designed are not physically real (which especially holds true with infrastructure as code) does not mean that they are not engineered or architected.
If you wish to take "engineer" as a verb then yeah, people engineer and manufacture and plan and whatever. "Engineer" as a noun, or as an occupation, is different. Software "engineers" don't go through FE tests. The legal ramifications are simply not comparable.
I do have a chip on my shoulder because two of my siblings are real engineers, not "techies with degrees and an ethics class maybe".
Oh lord you're gatekeeping something that doesn't even impact you. Literally half the engineers I work with came from other disciplines like electrical or mechanical but ended up in software because they preferred it over their background. What a very odd hill to die on.
Not an odd hill to die on. The names of professions shouldn't be dictated by marketing teams, especially when the names they think of have serious legal implications.
What serious legal implications are you on about? I work with three security teams, an ethics board, and legal. My software doesn't even touch anything that would come close to causing harm, and that's just in my area.
you can start with this
In some states, it's illegal to advertise oneself as an "engineer" if they're not the kind of engineer that is recognized by the NCEES. That's not the norm, usually just falsely claiming to be an engineer is simply annoying and left at that.
I mean, the term has existed since '60s so it's not like this is a marketing thing that's brand new or anything, and the NCEES used to offer it. I dunno if I give a shit what Texas state law says about anything, really. But again I don't get your weird gatekeeping over the term, it sounds kind of like a pet peeve that's not even yours that you've picked up as a cause.