"Meanwhile, most of protestors in Tel Aviv are wary of making this connection and are horrified by speakers who try to connect the palpable risk to democracy with the occupation of the territories or the waving of Palestinian flags in protest. However, the moment may well come when they too will recognize that there is no democracy alongside occupation."
Haven't I been reiterating my support and official US policy for a 2 state solution?
Israel isn't a real state, it's a neoimperialist attack dog that occasionally forgets its leash. It's theft and murder incarnate. If you really consider historical context to be important and still hold to a two-state solution as the ideal outcome, then I'm sorry, you're lacking a great deal of historical context and haven't the right to invoke it here.
Unfortunately the stain of religion has caused the fruition of needless casualties throughout the centuries. As the world becomes more atheistic over time due to the nature of scientic discovery, my hopes for change grow.
Broadly speaking, religion is not diminished by scientific discovery, it is diminished by people's material needs being met and their prospects looking good. Our friend Marx called that one a long time ago, but modern studies on secularization say the same thing.
But Israel/Palestine is not about religion except as a smokescreen. It is about race, specifically an overwhelmingly white population of settler colonists creating and expanding an ethnostate. The aggrievement of the Palestinians is not that Jews exist, but that their homes were taken and their family members and friends were butchered like animals.
What they are correctly suggesting is that your thesis is ignoring Israel's context as a settler-colony authored by Britain to enable what amounted to the mass-expulsion of Holocaust refugees from Europe to run an ethnostate in the Middle East that would act as an instrument for its interests.
The idea of religious conflict being the main element is completely absurd. A truly Jewish state would not forcibly sterilize Ethiopian Jews
I never claimed Britans handling of the relocation of Jewish people was perfect, many things could've been handled differently, however the conflict around Jerusalem is much older than you suggest and riddled with religious interests. Religion should not guide modern policy. At most religion should act as, "an opiate of the masses."
That conflict is a fiction invented by zionists that has only the most tenuous analogy to anything in actual history. The small number of Jewish Palestinians who were used as part of the smokescreen are out of the picture at this point, as Israel is overwhelmingly and aggressively white and has no interest is helping either Jewish or Muslim Arabs. The modern state of Israel is not based on those conflicts, there is no causal continuity, that is just a lie you have been fed. It's a white colony that is as connected to that inter-Palestinian conflict as the Nazis were connected to the Arabs of Ancient India, it's just something some racial supremacists conjured up for their fascist mythology.
Incidentally, get Marx's words out of your mouth if you won't bother to ever actually read him
"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised." - Hamas Covenant 1988
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)." - Hamas Covenant 1988
"They (Jews) were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there." - Hamas Covenant 1988
Sounds pretty darn racist to me. The same beliefs are echoed today by neo-nazis.
Alright, I mean this in the kindest way possible, you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have the time required nor the desire to rectify that, so I'll simply say that you've spent a regrettable amount of time here embarrassing yourself in front of people who know substantially more about history and politics than you do. Trying to debate communists on those subjects at all is generally a bad idea, but to do so armed only with natsec PR and mystery statistics is something else.
I mean personally I support communism, but I have yet to see it implemented without authoritarian influence. The Native Americans have a pretty decent communal system, which the US should learn from.
I mean personally I support communism, but I have yet to see it implemented without authoritarian influence
Pretty rich coming from someone on the side of
Also you do realize why socialists and communists become "authoritarian" right? It's at least partly to do with people like you who would have snitched to the Apartheid government and even attempted to kill them.
Either you are dumb or lying. The US will pay and in many ways that can't be foreseen for unconditionally enabling the genocide. If the US were independent, why does Israel keep dragging it into conflicts and wars? They tricked you into the invasion of Iraq and trying to get you into Yemen and Iran. If you are adamant that Israel acts independently, then it is clear who holds the leash. The US will still be a valid target because it is easier and more attackable, I don't have to leave my own country, your troops are everywhere.
Your government sends endless and unconditional military and financial aid to Israel that enables it to commit genocide protected by the US veto in the UN, therefore it is complicit and guilty in the massacres.
"Meanwhile, most of protestors in Tel Aviv are wary of making this connection and are horrified by speakers who try to connect the palpable risk to democracy with the occupation of the territories or the waving of Palestinian flags in protest. However, the moment may well come when they too will recognize that there is no democracy alongside occupation."
Haven't I been reiterating my support and official US policy for a 2 state solution?
Why would Palestinians need two states?
Palestinians would want two states so they can govern themselves in a sovereign nation, while concurrently Israel can do the same.
Palestinians need a state I agree, not sure what the second state would be for
Most of the world already recognized Palestinian statehood by the way, not the US or the civilized and european west though
The second state would be the counterpart to Palestine in a 2 state solution. Based on historical context, this would be the Israeli government.
Israel isn't a real state, it's a neoimperialist attack dog that occasionally forgets its leash. It's theft and murder incarnate. If you really consider historical context to be important and still hold to a two-state solution as the ideal outcome, then I'm sorry, you're lacking a great deal of historical context and haven't the right to invoke it here.
Unfortunately the stain of religion has caused the fruition of needless casualties throughout the centuries. As the world becomes more atheistic over time due to the nature of scientic discovery, my hopes for change grow.
Broadly speaking, religion is not diminished by scientific discovery, it is diminished by people's material needs being met and their prospects looking good. Our friend Marx called that one a long time ago, but modern studies on secularization say the same thing.
But Israel/Palestine is not about religion except as a smokescreen. It is about race, specifically an overwhelmingly white population of settler colonists creating and expanding an ethnostate. The aggrievement of the Palestinians is not that Jews exist, but that their homes were taken and their family members and friends were butchered like animals.
It is most definitely rooted in religious conflict and it'd be naive to think otherwise.
No, its rooted in Western colonialism, and it's cope to think otherwise.
I've never said western colonialism hasn't had it's negative impacts, but this is grossly minimalizing historical context.
Other way around.
Care to elaborate? Your non-point responses are not encouraged in thoughtful debate, but youre welcome to do as you please.
What they are correctly suggesting is that your thesis is ignoring Israel's context as a settler-colony authored by Britain to enable what amounted to the mass-expulsion of Holocaust refugees from Europe to run an ethnostate in the Middle East that would act as an instrument for its interests.
The idea of religious conflict being the main element is completely absurd. A truly Jewish state would not forcibly sterilize Ethiopian Jews
I never claimed Britans handling of the relocation of Jewish people was perfect, many things could've been handled differently, however the conflict around Jerusalem is much older than you suggest and riddled with religious interests. Religion should not guide modern policy. At most religion should act as, "an opiate of the masses."
That conflict is a fiction invented by zionists that has only the most tenuous analogy to anything in actual history. The small number of Jewish Palestinians who were used as part of the smokescreen are out of the picture at this point, as Israel is overwhelmingly and aggressively white and has no interest is helping either Jewish or Muslim Arabs. The modern state of Israel is not based on those conflicts, there is no causal continuity, that is just a lie you have been fed. It's a white colony that is as connected to that inter-Palestinian conflict as the Nazis were connected to the Arabs of Ancient India, it's just something some racial supremacists conjured up for their fascist mythology.
Incidentally, get Marx's words out of your mouth if you won't bother to ever actually read him
"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised." - Hamas Covenant 1988
The conflict predates Hamas by a few decades
A few millennium actually, however Hamas is the current acting government of Gaza, thus the cause for concern.
kill yourself nazi fuck
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)." - Hamas Covenant 1988
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
This is most certainly rooted in religious beliefs.
Jihad is what you do against colonizers, turns out
And the definition of Jihad is? Ding ding, you just landed on religious conflict, congratulations 👏
"They (Jews) were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there." - Hamas Covenant 1988
Sounds pretty darn racist to me. The same beliefs are echoed today by neo-nazis.
You get what you give
Exactly, like yin and yang, we must maintain mindfulness and thoughtful observation of the world around us. It promotes a better world!
Alright, I mean this in the kindest way possible, you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have the time required nor the desire to rectify that, so I'll simply say that you've spent a regrettable amount of time here embarrassing yourself in front of people who know substantially more about history and politics than you do. Trying to debate communists on those subjects at all is generally a bad idea, but to do so armed only with natsec PR and mystery statistics is something else.
I mean personally I support communism, but I have yet to see it implemented without authoritarian influence. The Native Americans have a pretty decent communal system, which the US should learn from.
Pretty rich coming from someone on the side of
Also you do realize why socialists and communists become "authoritarian" right? It's at least partly to do with people like you who would have snitched to the Apartheid government and even attempted to kill them.
While I am going to entertain your idea of 2-states, your government doesn't and never did.
Based on official US policy, the support for a 2 state solution remains remarkably unchanged and clear.
Yet it still refuses to recognize the 2nd half of the 2-state solution. بقى احنا عبط
Oh well, we refuse to recognize Israel. It is a modern Crusader state and will go away when this phase of the Crusader Wars end.
If you don't want to debate about the requirements for peace and stability, then I don't have much more to discuss with you. Have a nice weekend!
Simple, Zionist settlers go back to where they came from, just like the Crusaders before them. Palestine is for Palestinians.
Peace will happen when the US is too broke to prop up Israel anymore.
Israel is a major player in international discourse removed from US input. They play their own cards, and we shall continue playing ours.
Either you are dumb or lying. The US will pay and in many ways that can't be foreseen for unconditionally enabling the genocide. If the US were independent, why does Israel keep dragging it into conflicts and wars? They tricked you into the invasion of Iraq and trying to get you into Yemen and Iran. If you are adamant that Israel acts independently, then it is clear who holds the leash. The US will still be a valid target because it is easier and more attackable, I don't have to leave my own country, your troops are everywhere.
I mean there may be underwater communication cables between the US and Israel, but I wouldn't equate that to a dogs leash.
Sure you can. I have seen people use ethernet cables to leash their dogs. Israel makes the US invade countries and send it aid whenever it wants.
That sounds inhumane, and I would not support animal neglect in this form.
Yet, Israel leashes your government with it. You are okay with it being done to you
I'm sorry, but can you speak literally? These metaphors are unhelpful and distract from the debate at hand.
Your government sends endless and unconditional military and financial aid to Israel that enables it to commit genocide protected by the US veto in the UN, therefore it is complicit and guilty in the massacres.
It's fairly easy to disagree with this claim, but to each their own!
You may disagree with heliocentric theory, and it may seem obvious that the sun revolves around the earth.
The sun does not in fact orbit around the earth. Have you played Kerbal Space Program? It might help with your understanding.
Yes it does. The US despite its size orbits Israel otherwise it would be antisemitic
This fails to respond to my response?
It is about the tail wagging the dog, you won’t get it
I like dogs, they're man's best friend!
Yet, they will never give me 3.50
What is 3.50?
https://youtu.be/tuh8Hip_B3w
Trey Parker and Matt Stone have had better moments.