Yes.
Excerpt:
Texas doesn’t have statewide guidelines for critical care and triage, which means that caregivers are left to their own local organizing. But tough times like the ones brought on by low vaccination rates and the delta variant require a re-examination of priors. This fourth wave of Covid hospitalizations differs from all the others, because almost everyone who is severely ill is also unvaccinated. In Texas, more than 12,800 people are in the hospital because of Covid-19, and between 93 and 98 percent of them are unvaccinated.
It’s tempting to blame this wave not on the virus but on the people who didn’t get their shots. “This has been bubbling up—this anger, this frustration, this fear, this worry. Every day, we’re seeing the ascent of the curve. Now it’s the steepest it’s ever been,” Fine says. “So I and the other leaders of the task force, we decided, you know, these numbers are not looking good. These questions are coming up."
It depends. If a smug doctor is doing to own the antivaxxers or whatever, yeah I also heavily disagree with giving vaccinated people treatment first. That's some lib tier personal responsibility nonsense.
But if triage is applied, and there's one ICU bed left (unfortunately a very real scenario), and two Covid patients arrive to the hospital, around the same age, weight, co-morbilites, sickness level, etc, and one of them is vaccinated and the other is not, the vaccinated person should receive the ICU bed ahead of the unvaccinated person, simply because the chance of survival is greater for the vaccinated person. Resources are better spent trying to save the person with a greater chance of survival. It's ugly, but that's what triage, and our reality right now, is.
This specifically is what I'm talking about. If there's an open bed for an asshole who won't get vaccinated then fine, but triaging is a separate thing all together.
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Look at the hospital capacity rates in places like Florida and Texas. These aren't hypotheticals.
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Governments outside of the USA government have done studies on the US made vaccines on their own Covid 19 variants and declared the vaccines safe. Does sub Saharan African governments declaring the Phizer and J and J vaccines safe and effective for our variants of Covid make you feel more at ease?
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:bugs-no:
Rational is the wrong word. But there are understandable reasons. If someone was medically experimented on by SAIMR, and antivaxx as a result, I'd understand it. I'd try to convince them otherwise for the sake of the sake of their own health, but at the end of the day I can't hold it against them.
Thankfully this is a rare thing, and most of the antivaxxers in my country are white chuds that have no understandable reason to be antivaxx
I'm just trying to have an honest conversation. I don't think you're a chud or anything. I understand why people are antivaxx. Medical experimentation on minorities, stuff like SAIMR conducting medical experiments against Africans. The vaccines being American, and a general distrust against the USA. I'm trying to address this by saying that even anti US governments and institutions are saying that the US made vaccines are safe, and are making efforts to acquire them. And that people are desperate for vaccines over here. Despite all of the bad history with the USA and the medical community.
It's been studied at length and there are at least 3 different options now. Pfizer’s was even approved by the FDA today.
Vaccine hoarding is a separate issue and fucked up.
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Cool, then 4. We straight up should only have had 1, but that’s besides the point.
There’s been more than enough time to see that the vaccines are safe. Still being antivax at this point is fucking ridiculous.
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Rational as in we don’t want to be the first subjects of testing - sure, after 100 millions of vaccinated people - nah, it’s not rational, it’s something else
There’s totally a fucked history there from shit like Tuskegee and the US needs to own that more.
Antivaxxers harm minorities and the working class disproportionately because they often cannot work remotely and have a greater chance of contracting Covid from working in public-facing jobs.
Being antivaxx is being anti-worker. Being antivaxx is being anti-minority.
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I am not discrediting anyone who is antivaxx. They have already done that to themselves.
If I were a corporation making vaccines, I would make them work (cause they have to) and simultaneously promote some behavior which would make them ineffective without working-as-a-service, I.e. have unvaccinated pools of population to get new variants, be it in global south or anti-vaccine crowd at home :shrug-outta-hecks: seems what happens right now, curiously
Also, you do realize anti vaccine “movement” have long and not so proud tradition since their introduction basically
Or even pushing antivax conspiracy theories involving, say, the CIA.
I don’t honestly think anti vaccine are pushed by central state tbh, but might be kinda let go
I don’t either, I’m more of just throwing it out there.
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Triage is not fascist. It is a medical concept that has been used for centuries to ensure adequate use of resources and better survival. A doctor, GP, or hospital refusing to treat antivaxxers could be argued as fascist, but triaging them is not.
:wut:
It's not a hypothetical, this is a very real scenario. The hospital in my city still has tent and shipping container wards up, a d ICU beds and oxygen are very scarce. Triage is being applied, older people are being sent home while younger people get the few available hospital beds. The same is true in areas of the USA. While vaccination is not widespread enough to be used a criteria for triage in my country, it is very widespread in the USA. If you're a doctor triaging patients in Florida (not a hypothetical, gunshot victims were being sent home), do you use vaccination status as a criteria? Other criteria, like age are already being used for triage. Stuff that people have no control of. Would adding vaccine status (something people have relative control of, not full control because anti vaccine propaganda, etc) really be immoral by that standard?
Wasn't there a thread here last week with an ER doc talking about this? Does anyone have a link to that?
Yeah someone even posted the gofundme for the gunshot victim here