:1984: ugh it doesn't do a whole lot but the devs said your police go plant bugs and stuff. i mean they are surprisingly pacifist otherwise, no arrests, you just blacklist reactionaries from important jobs (or those that aren't "loyal to the state"). it does take some of the pure socialist urban/nation planning away from an otherwise good game. not sure how historically accurate it is, but if bug planting and removal of responsibilities is as "police state stasi" as this gets i won't be too upset in the long run. beats murdering citizens in the streets for minor crimes

  • LeninWeave [none/use name]
    ·
    3 years ago

    When did I call it "lol whatever"? My point is that the actual activities of the Stasi, while obviously not always above board, were also not nearly what people in the West think they were.

      • LeninWeave [none/use name]
        ·
        3 years ago

        exactly what people in the west think they were

        People in the West think that the Stasi ran around rounding up anyone who criticized the government and killing/imprisoning them, not that they used unethical pressure tactics to dissuade active political dissidents.

        There's a huge difference between those two. If you wanted, I'm sure you could also find better and worse things the Stasi did. The point is that they're not the cartoon villains they're portrayed as in American propaganda.

        I don’t know how you diminish that but it’s not done honestly

        I'm literally not diminishing anything. I didn't say it was good.

        Edit: "just examining everything your children say" University student political dissidents, not primary school children.

        Edit 2: this is all from a passage I read a while back in Stasi State or Socialist Paradise, so it's possible I'm misremembering details anyway. Anyone who's reading this and is interested in the subject should take it from the book, rather than from me.

          • LeninWeave [none/use name]
            ·
            3 years ago

            The point is that they’re not the cartoon villains they’re portrayed as in American propaganda.

            This is what diminishing means.

            That's just factual. Of course the Americans exaggerate the crimes of their enemies.

            You’re painting the picture of a malevolent all powerful and omnipresent state that interferes in all aspects of daily life to the point of trying to destroy children who wrongthink.

            If you read my edits (edit: and didn't intentionally interpret them in the worst possible way), you'd know I'm not talking about "wrong-thinking" children, but adults who are working against the state (that's what "dissidents" means). And I don't think it was good, just that it wasn't quite what people think the Stasi generally did.

            Once again, I suggest Stasi State or Socialist Paradise, because I'm only remembering from a passage of it. It's critical of the Stasi, by the way, not supportive of them.

            Honestly, nothing I've made here is a wild point, especially in the context of this website. I'd appreciate you reading my posts in good faith instead of assuming I'm a psychopath and proceeding with the worst possible interpretation of everything I say.

            • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              Fun fact: the US employs proportionally more of its own citizens to spy on their fellow countrymen than the GDR ever did. They also imprison several orders of magnitude more people.

              • LeninWeave [none/use name]
                ·
                3 years ago

                They also imprison several orders of magnitude more people.

                Has anyone (in recent history) actually beat the US on this one?

                • AlephNull [she/her]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  Unfortunately, a*stralia and its incarceration of aboriginal people (per capita, not raw numbers)

                • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  You'd have to go back to like early history to beat it. The police state in America is functionally unique in world history.

              • LeninWeave [none/use name]
                ·
                3 years ago

                “My statement of opinion is actually a fact”

                Literally nothing in your entire reply actually responds to a single fucking thing I said. All you do is vaguely whine about ‘being interpreted unfavorably’ and ad hominem insults about not participating in good faith.

                Fuck you. Participating in good faith means not ignoring literally every single fucking word I say, asshole.

                Well sorry. Just because I didn’t repeat your own words back to you with exactly the same tone and emphasis does not mean you were interpreted dishonestly.

                There’s nothing more for me to say here because you completely checked out of the argument. You didn’t reply.

                Alright. I replied exactly as much as I intended to, because I'm already tired of this and I didn't want to get deeper into a debate. "American propaganda about East Germany includes many exaggerations and even falsehoods" is a fact. It's just true.

                I started typing a reply to the rest, but then realized it was pointless. Let's agree to disagree on the subject of the real Stasi not being as bad as the Stasi in the minds of Americans. Have a good day.

                  • LeninWeave [none/use name]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    I'm honestly not sure what you mean. The specific example I originally used:

                    They mostly did surveillance and put pressure on people (such as having student dissidents fail classes).

                    And the perception Americans have of the Stasi, also from my first post:

                    Certainly not the “run around oppressing and assassinating everyone” image people in the West seem to have built up of them.

                    Clearly, one doesn't line up with the other. Of course the image people in the West have of the Stasi is exaggerated. You can call that a "truism" if you want, but it's literally the entire point of this thread of comments and you seem to even agree with it here.

                    Whatever you think it is I'm arguing, I assure you I'm not.

          • comi [he/him]
            ·
            3 years ago

            Destruction as in not spending resources on their education?

            I have a question, how do you organize free education (as in paid for by society), when you have brain drain problems, cause nearby usa pays more cash money?