Socialist patriotism isn't something I defined, it exists/existed in all AES countries, including ones who were formerly imperialistic or had slavery & indigenous removal like Cuba & East Germany and others
You just aren't looking at what exists, you're choosing abstraction and simple negation instead
" Cuban history schoolbooks spoke of the “martyrs”
who had died for “Patriotismo Socialista.” Mao Zedong also adopted a version
of his own.116 In whatever remains of a worldwide far-left Marxist movement,
the concept of socialist patriotism is still a current term. It can be found on left-
wing websites, and in the press releases of the North Korean news agency.1"
"All Central and Eastern European countries developed their own version of socialist
patriotism: in the DDR it was called sozialistischer patriotismus, in Romania patrio-
tismului revolutionar socialist, in Poland patriotyzmu socjalistznego, in Hungary
szocialista hazafisa ́g. Each party constructed its own variety, usually drawing exten-
sively on existing national traditions, including those on the political right."
Yes, and it was garbage idea everywhere. If you don’t transcend patriotism into international solidarity, sooner or later it will give brainworms to noticeable part of population. It’s very cool when socialist think that their countrymen not having TVs is bigger outrage then Africa not having electric lighting in lot of places
Of course there is, the negation of nation should abolish patriotism. Once again, where was patriotism before nation states among disposed masses?
Patriotism is already highest form of brain worms, where people might choose solidarity with the oppressor, cause they speak same language, it cannot become even more rabid.
“Simplistic” negation? Since when negation is simplistic? Both are complete processes in themselves.
Maybe my antipatriotism is negation and class solidarity is negation of negation? Curious thing, that biggest boom of anti patriotism during ww1 resulted in russian revolution and very near in that in germany or later italy. Maybe antipatriotism is necessary in imperial core then?
Marxian dialectics involves "negation of negation"... simplistic negation is just one-dimensional rebellion, not revolution
The USSR revolution was an actual outpouring of socialist patriotism, and "revolutionary defeatism" was employed in the larger context of building beyond the Tsarist backwardness... that process couldn't have been completed or even attempted without a love for one's country. As Lenin says, building on Disraeli's Sybil that Lenin loved dearly:
" There are two nations in every modern nation—we say to all nationalist-socialists. There are two national cultures in every national culture. There is the Great-Russian culture of the Purishkeviches, Guchkovs and Struves—hut there is also the Great-Russian culture typified in the names of Chernyshevsky and Plekhanov. There are the same two cultures in the Ukraine as there are in Germany, in France, in England, among the Jews, and so forth. If the majority of the Ukrainian workers are under the influence of Great-Russian culture, we also know definitely that the ideas of Great-Russian democracy and Social-Democracy operate parallel with the Great-Russian clerical and bourgeois culture. In fighting the latter kind of “culture”, the Ukrainian Marxist will always bring the former into focus, and say to his workers: “We must snatch at, make use of, and develop to the utmost every opportunity for intercourse with the Great-Russian class-conscious workers, with their literature and with their range of ideas; the fundamental interests of both the Ukrainian and the Great-Russian working-class movements demand it.”
If a Ukrainian Marxist allows himself to he swayed by his quite legitimate and natural hatred of the Great-Russian oppressors to such a degree that he transfers even a particle of this hatred, even if it be only estrangement, to the proletarian culture and proletarian cause of the Great-Russian workers, then such a Marxist will get bogged down in bourgeois nationalism. Similarly, the Great-Russian Marxist will be bogged down, not only in bourgeois, but also in Black-Hundred nationalism, if he loses sight, even for a moment, of the demand for complete equality for the Ukrainians, or of their right to forum an independent state. "
Rebellion is anti-dialectical without this recognition of primary contradictions. Rebellion and revolution in this context are at times even antagonistic
Negation, despite being opposed to primary, is anything but simplistic. Idealism negated from materialism, have gone completely esoteric evolving into hegel, if you forgot.
So, exactly class solidarity with disregard to the countries? Huh :lenin-confused:
Socialist patriotism isn't something I defined, it exists/existed in all AES countries, including ones who were formerly imperialistic or had slavery & indigenous removal like Cuba & East Germany and others
Then we agree to disagree that such a thing exists :shrug-outta-hecks:
You just aren't looking at what exists, you're choosing abstraction and simple negation instead
" Cuban history schoolbooks spoke of the “martyrs” who had died for “Patriotismo Socialista.” Mao Zedong also adopted a version of his own.116 In whatever remains of a worldwide far-left Marxist movement, the concept of socialist patriotism is still a current term. It can be found on left- wing websites, and in the press releases of the North Korean news agency.1"
"All Central and Eastern European countries developed their own version of socialist patriotism: in the DDR it was called sozialistischer patriotismus, in Romania patrio- tismului revolutionar socialist, in Poland patriotyzmu socjalistznego, in Hungary szocialista hazafisa ́g. Each party constructed its own variety, usually drawing exten- sively on existing national traditions, including those on the political right."
Yes, and it was garbage idea everywhere. If you don’t transcend patriotism into international solidarity, sooner or later it will give brainworms to noticeable part of population. It’s very cool when socialist think that their countrymen not having TVs is bigger outrage then Africa not having electric lighting in lot of places
There is no "transcendence" without negation of negation
You can't just undialectically "abolish" what exists in this simplistic way
What exists must be driven to extreme & the higher form emerges from the "womb" of the old
African countries have patriotic socialism too
Of course there is, the negation of nation should abolish patriotism. Once again, where was patriotism before nation states among disposed masses?
Patriotism is already highest form of brain worms, where people might choose solidarity with the oppressor, cause they speak same language, it cannot become even more rabid.
No, simplistic "negation" is anti-Marxian and has nothing to do with scientific socialism
Socialist patriotism is the key to the solution of this problem with building beyond backwardness & chauvinism
Telling people they can't have love for their communities & families & countries is not socialism lmfao
“Simplistic” negation? Since when negation is simplistic? Both are complete processes in themselves.
Maybe my antipatriotism is negation and class solidarity is negation of negation? Curious thing, that biggest boom of anti patriotism during ww1 resulted in russian revolution and very near in that in germany or later italy. Maybe antipatriotism is necessary in imperial core then?
Marxian dialectics involves "negation of negation"... simplistic negation is just one-dimensional rebellion, not revolution
The USSR revolution was an actual outpouring of socialist patriotism, and "revolutionary defeatism" was employed in the larger context of building beyond the Tsarist backwardness... that process couldn't have been completed or even attempted without a love for one's country. As Lenin says, building on Disraeli's Sybil that Lenin loved dearly:
" There are two nations in every modern nation—we say to all nationalist-socialists. There are two national cultures in every national culture. There is the Great-Russian culture of the Purishkeviches, Guchkovs and Struves—hut there is also the Great-Russian culture typified in the names of Chernyshevsky and Plekhanov. There are the same two cultures in the Ukraine as there are in Germany, in France, in England, among the Jews, and so forth. If the majority of the Ukrainian workers are under the influence of Great-Russian culture, we also know definitely that the ideas of Great-Russian democracy and Social-Democracy operate parallel with the Great-Russian clerical and bourgeois culture. In fighting the latter kind of “culture”, the Ukrainian Marxist will always bring the former into focus, and say to his workers: “We must snatch at, make use of, and develop to the utmost every opportunity for intercourse with the Great-Russian class-conscious workers, with their literature and with their range of ideas; the fundamental interests of both the Ukrainian and the Great-Russian working-class movements demand it.”
If a Ukrainian Marxist allows himself to he swayed by his quite legitimate and natural hatred of the Great-Russian oppressors to such a degree that he transfers even a particle of this hatred, even if it be only estrangement, to the proletarian culture and proletarian cause of the Great-Russian workers, then such a Marxist will get bogged down in bourgeois nationalism. Similarly, the Great-Russian Marxist will be bogged down, not only in bourgeois, but also in Black-Hundred nationalism, if he loses sight, even for a moment, of the demand for complete equality for the Ukrainians, or of their right to forum an independent state. "
Rebellion is anti-dialectical without this recognition of primary contradictions. Rebellion and revolution in this context are at times even antagonistic
Negation, despite being opposed to primary, is anything but simplistic. Idealism negated from materialism, have gone completely esoteric evolving into hegel, if you forgot.
So, exactly class solidarity with disregard to the countries? Huh :lenin-confused: