• MsUltraViolet [she/her]
    ·
    3 years ago

    I haven't listened to this yet, but I heard people saying that in this episode they say that if the USSR hadn't exited it would mean it would be easier now to get people to be socialist, because the USSR was big and scary and now people are put off. Is that at all accurate? I don't want to listen to lib shit if it is, which is why i'm asking

    • HarryLime [any]
      hexagon
      ·
      3 years ago

      Yes, they do say that, but their argument is much more nuanced than "the USSR was big and scary." They say a lot of things that are undeniably true, even if you disagree with their conclusions. I admire the accomplishments of the USSR as much as anyone here, but this episode gave me a lot to think about.

      • MsUltraViolet [she/her]
        ·
        3 years ago

        hmm, ok, that's good to hear. I enjoy hearing Matt's analysis of things, so I'll probably listen, even if I don't end up agreeing

    • cybernetsoc [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      No, it is Matt's usual take of the USSR. Basically, because of trying to do revolution in a still mostly feudal place, and that not being the spark that lit off revolution elsewhere with an industrialized economy(e.g. Germany), they had to more or less industrialize on their own. And this socialism in one (feudal) country required all the dirty work and violence inherent in industrialization and proletarianization were done under the banner of Communism rather than Capitalism. Both alienating people from the project of communism and providing easy propaganda for capitalists.

      They explicitly state that they are looking at best possible alternate scenarios, so discounting we still get the Nazi and they rule Europe after WWII or the Russian right wing reaction forms some proto-fascism in ~1917. So best case is that the fact that there isn't a Moscow to point to in a Red Scare, leads the US to be less able to justify interventions abroad and crush left wing movements so totally, so we could get something else, somewhere else with some focus on American left wing movements since they are both Americans more knowledgeable about American culture and politics.

    • Llituro [he/him, they/them]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Matt has also pointed out before that no USSR means that WWII might have turned out...differently.

    • Vncredleader
      ·
      3 years ago

      Oh god the genocidal Chomsky take

    • NaturalsNotInIt [any]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      His take is basically "Lenin, was a brilliant guy but he didn't consider that Americans would be scared of savage foreigners representing communism". It's especially bad given how they've emphasized how the failure of the German Revolution was such a blow to the global movement. Moscow being the heart of global communism is unfathomably scary for Mayo Americans, but Germany, a country the US was literally at war with in 1918, which has significant industry that Capital would have tried to claw back, would have been less scary..... Also the idea that Americans are terrified of socialism from the "non West", but would have fought a continual war with southern Slaveholders to give black people rights in the south if only a more forceful President had replaced Lincoln.

      This series has revealed that Matt is just a Blue MAGA Redditor at heart. Every episode concludes with the idea "wow, things would have been so much better if we just would have had more Progressive politicians elected". Wow, great stuff. Might be time for him to retire honestly.

      • CyborgMarx [any, any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        lol Matt's takes on the USSR are a bit overstated, but "Blue MAGA Redditor" like come on

        • NaturalsNotInIt [any]
          ·
          3 years ago

          I've exaggerated a bit, but so far in the Hinge Point series he's put out 2 episodes talking about how actual revolutions were doomed to fail anyway and might have hurt, and 2 episodes about some b.s. palace intrigue around who was the Vice President of the USA and how it totally would have made the pieces line up or something.

          I get his criticisms, but complaining about Russophobia hurting the global movement is asinine coming from a guy who thinks that replacing Johnson as Lincoln's VP would have radically changed everything. The America America America stuff is so lib.