I'm really sorry, you're completely right about finding her pronouns. I doubt you'd believe it as I've already soured myself with the mistakes I made. I was nervous and afraid and thought I would mess up anyways. I don't believe you would understand unless you were willing to empathize with me, which is a big ask after what I did wrong. I'll do my best to properly gender folks.
I think the tone you used is completely appropriate. Stating it is awful without, to your perception, giving an argument or substance is indeed inappropriate and disrespectful of Julia's work.
I very much don't appreciate the terms you used. I don't think it's my place to ask you to take it back or apologize. I do want to make it known so hopefully other people reading it can be more sensitive to me. I really hate having to identify myself with a laundry list of conditions to be taken seriously or spoken to with respect. I use vague language because I am questioning. This paragraph was only written because I don't know how else you might care about the content of what I write; you can see I post in POC and I have mentioned being in the area of neurodiverse (I am questioning there to). Do not make me elaborate further please.
I don't like that you used "word salad". I don't know why you used it, if it's because I wrote a lot and there was no substance or the negative highly outweighed the positive, I accept it and I still do not appreciate that. I don't think it's a word salad at all. My entire life I've been told I speak or write too much. Maybe everyone except my wife and therapist and psychologist and psychiatrist is right? No, I no longer accept that, I can validate myself and insist that there was good content there and you were unable to understand it. I must not have communicated it well or in a way amenable to you and others who have commented. I already made a severe mistake in misgendering (I wanted to say; I was not referring to Julia with the subjects I used in my sentences; another example of myself not communicating clearly and you misunderstanding as a result, again I apologize, I won't invalidate your experience and say that what you felt was wrong or incorrect, I can be dialectical and accept both) the author of the piece as you and I think one other commenter pointed out.
I don't appreciate the label "f****** brain genius" and reject it. If you want to engage further I request you do not use that term or similar terms with me and give me a modicum of respect now that I have had a chance to explain myself. Not vindicate, or 'let-myself-off-the-hook', I accept your criticisms and I will not do that thing HR does "we hear your concerns and accept them " and proceed to do nothing of the sort. I will now be better with properly gendering people and searching for a person's appropriate pronouns and when I don't know or use the wrong ones, to refrain from misgendering so many times. As well to make it clear when I changed the subject from an individual to a broader and more abstract (and still valid) subject.
I want to engage with the content of what you said that doesn't have to do with my mistakes and grievances. I do not know if it is worth your time. I have to sleep soon as it's past midnight. If you won't treat me with respect and won't refrain from hurtful language then I would kindly ask you to disengage, or I can if you like, since I made the initial transgression. I'm pretty sure I've poisoned the well for any further discussion of my initial points & thesis. Or, you can report me to a mod; as my behaviour here was inappropriate and I am unwelcome. Or in the case you continue and do not disengage, I can report you to prevent more hurtful language.
You have every right to feel the way you do. I do not have to have a continued (i.e. further discussion with several responses and a long thread) hurtful and harmful labelling after I have indicated explicitly I do not like it and I request you do not use the aforementioned labels.
Look, i get what you're trying to say and i'm sorry for being standoffish. Just to put this in perspective and understand why i'm coming off like that recently, most of the last weeks have been rough for me, i had to deal with a covid infection that ruined a lot of plans i had, i felt super isolated and depressed because i could not meet up with my gal pal and my support network due to being ill, i've had trouble with my employment situation and my landlord, so all in all i was just in a really foul mood and honestly i've been kind of mean online because of that. That's not to say this makes it ok to engage in a discussion in the way i often do atm, but i hope this takes some of the weight out of my post and makes it seem less like me coming after you personally. Honestly, that goes for a lot of what i've been posting recently.
Anyway, my main point is this: You shouldn't have to worry about saying inappropriate things just by engaging with Serrano's text. If you think she's making mistakes in regards to Skinner's work, you're free to point them out and give your own perspective on how he viewed human socialization, that may add something to the discussion. I don't think she has a problem with Skinner per se, i don't think she was trying to say that he was being transphobic in his work or whatever, i think she just used a household name like his as a jumping off point to say that we've largely moved away from earlier "blank slate" models of socialization. And if you think that it misrepresents Skinners work to frame it like that, it would give some perspective if you elaborate on that if you feel like it.
If not, i don't mind if we just agree that we met each other on a wrong foot and disengage here, that's really up to you.
Thanks for the response. I'm sorry you had a rough week, I'd think it would make having to engage with someone who was ignorant and made the errors I made even more unpleasant. I don't care if I didn't know or couldn't know.
If I couldn't know I still think I can act in a way that doesn't misgender or otherwise be vague and antagonistic. And if I can't do that I'd really rather just not say anything if I can. I don't think what I said has any value anymore.
I mean I learned from it and I don't know what it meant to other people. Other people did let me know how what I did was wrong and can be easily avoided. From what others said though, which is what I use because I genuinely don't know how they feel or think, what I wrote wasn't helpful and the comment did not need to be made which I, like right now not before, also think was inappropriate and unnecessary.
Thanks again for your response, sharing a bit about yourself, and being willing to try again. I don't have anything else to say besides thanks. Honestly I'm now afraid of saying anything or like giving details of what I alluded to in my initial and rightly removed comment.
I'm so afraid that I'll say something to hurt people who are among the last I'd like to hurt. I'm obviously a bit afraid of something hurtful being said to me, I can't say I can take it, only that I've suffered enough to feel comfortable that's something I am able to experience. What is more suffering really? If I welcome it, nothing changes. If I do my best to get rid of it, it gets worse. It doesn't make sense to me and I can't figure it out. Or at least I haven't been able to for at least more than some 18 odd years.
I did not know who Julia was, I read several popular pieces by her. Didn't engage with her books, but skimmed her PhD thesis at University of Kansas (which deadnames her). It was the kind of work that wouldn't be appreciated I think by those outside the field (biology is my subject of choice and background) and is not glamorous, but it is of the kind of work that enables others to get the flashy stuff done. It's the in-between 'plumbing' that people might look down on, but use all the same. There's good respect there, it's the equivalent of public service for 'omic work in the model organism which was her target.
I did my homework, I'm still trying to learn, it's only; I don't want to keep hurting people while I'm doing it.
Sorry for the essay. I do hope I can engage positively with you in the future. You seem to be considerate and thoughtful.
Oh I also wanted to add that it was really validating when you said you got what I was trying to say. I appreciate it and your apology (which I don't find necessary and will accept as I concede you have a better idea of what you are apologizing for) and want to say it made my good day which became bad near the end decent. Yeah, not good, still better than before.
I'm really sorry, you're completely right about finding her pronouns. I doubt you'd believe it as I've already soured myself with the mistakes I made. I was nervous and afraid and thought I would mess up anyways. I don't believe you would understand unless you were willing to empathize with me, which is a big ask after what I did wrong. I'll do my best to properly gender folks.
I think the tone you used is completely appropriate. Stating it is awful without, to your perception, giving an argument or substance is indeed inappropriate and disrespectful of Julia's work.
I very much don't appreciate the terms you used. I don't think it's my place to ask you to take it back or apologize. I do want to make it known so hopefully other people reading it can be more sensitive to me. I really hate having to identify myself with a laundry list of conditions to be taken seriously or spoken to with respect. I use vague language because I am questioning. This paragraph was only written because I don't know how else you might care about the content of what I write; you can see I post in POC and I have mentioned being in the area of neurodiverse (I am questioning there to). Do not make me elaborate further please.
I don't like that you used "word salad". I don't know why you used it, if it's because I wrote a lot and there was no substance or the negative highly outweighed the positive, I accept it and I still do not appreciate that. I don't think it's a word salad at all. My entire life I've been told I speak or write too much. Maybe everyone except my wife and therapist and psychologist and psychiatrist is right? No, I no longer accept that, I can validate myself and insist that there was good content there and you were unable to understand it. I must not have communicated it well or in a way amenable to you and others who have commented. I already made a severe mistake in misgendering (I wanted to say; I was not referring to Julia with the subjects I used in my sentences; another example of myself not communicating clearly and you misunderstanding as a result, again I apologize, I won't invalidate your experience and say that what you felt was wrong or incorrect, I can be dialectical and accept both) the author of the piece as you and I think one other commenter pointed out.
I don't appreciate the label "f****** brain genius" and reject it. If you want to engage further I request you do not use that term or similar terms with me and give me a modicum of respect now that I have had a chance to explain myself. Not vindicate, or 'let-myself-off-the-hook', I accept your criticisms and I will not do that thing HR does "we hear your concerns and accept them " and proceed to do nothing of the sort. I will now be better with properly gendering people and searching for a person's appropriate pronouns and when I don't know or use the wrong ones, to refrain from misgendering so many times. As well to make it clear when I changed the subject from an individual to a broader and more abstract (and still valid) subject.
I want to engage with the content of what you said that doesn't have to do with my mistakes and grievances. I do not know if it is worth your time. I have to sleep soon as it's past midnight. If you won't treat me with respect and won't refrain from hurtful language then I would kindly ask you to disengage, or I can if you like, since I made the initial transgression. I'm pretty sure I've poisoned the well for any further discussion of my initial points & thesis. Or, you can report me to a mod; as my behaviour here was inappropriate and I am unwelcome. Or in the case you continue and do not disengage, I can report you to prevent more hurtful language.
You have every right to feel the way you do. I do not have to have a continued (i.e. further discussion with several responses and a long thread) hurtful and harmful labelling after I have indicated explicitly I do not like it and I request you do not use the aforementioned labels.
Look, i get what you're trying to say and i'm sorry for being standoffish. Just to put this in perspective and understand why i'm coming off like that recently, most of the last weeks have been rough for me, i had to deal with a covid infection that ruined a lot of plans i had, i felt super isolated and depressed because i could not meet up with my gal pal and my support network due to being ill, i've had trouble with my employment situation and my landlord, so all in all i was just in a really foul mood and honestly i've been kind of mean online because of that. That's not to say this makes it ok to engage in a discussion in the way i often do atm, but i hope this takes some of the weight out of my post and makes it seem less like me coming after you personally. Honestly, that goes for a lot of what i've been posting recently.
Anyway, my main point is this: You shouldn't have to worry about saying inappropriate things just by engaging with Serrano's text. If you think she's making mistakes in regards to Skinner's work, you're free to point them out and give your own perspective on how he viewed human socialization, that may add something to the discussion. I don't think she has a problem with Skinner per se, i don't think she was trying to say that he was being transphobic in his work or whatever, i think she just used a household name like his as a jumping off point to say that we've largely moved away from earlier "blank slate" models of socialization. And if you think that it misrepresents Skinners work to frame it like that, it would give some perspective if you elaborate on that if you feel like it.
If not, i don't mind if we just agree that we met each other on a wrong foot and disengage here, that's really up to you.
Thanks for the response. I'm sorry you had a rough week, I'd think it would make having to engage with someone who was ignorant and made the errors I made even more unpleasant. I don't care if I didn't know or couldn't know.
If I couldn't know I still think I can act in a way that doesn't misgender or otherwise be vague and antagonistic. And if I can't do that I'd really rather just not say anything if I can. I don't think what I said has any value anymore.
I mean I learned from it and I don't know what it meant to other people. Other people did let me know how what I did was wrong and can be easily avoided. From what others said though, which is what I use because I genuinely don't know how they feel or think, what I wrote wasn't helpful and the comment did not need to be made which I, like right now not before, also think was inappropriate and unnecessary.
Thanks again for your response, sharing a bit about yourself, and being willing to try again. I don't have anything else to say besides thanks. Honestly I'm now afraid of saying anything or like giving details of what I alluded to in my initial and rightly removed comment.
I'm so afraid that I'll say something to hurt people who are among the last I'd like to hurt. I'm obviously a bit afraid of something hurtful being said to me, I can't say I can take it, only that I've suffered enough to feel comfortable that's something I am able to experience. What is more suffering really? If I welcome it, nothing changes. If I do my best to get rid of it, it gets worse. It doesn't make sense to me and I can't figure it out. Or at least I haven't been able to for at least more than some 18 odd years.
I did not know who Julia was, I read several popular pieces by her. Didn't engage with her books, but skimmed her PhD thesis at University of Kansas (which deadnames her). It was the kind of work that wouldn't be appreciated I think by those outside the field (biology is my subject of choice and background) and is not glamorous, but it is of the kind of work that enables others to get the flashy stuff done. It's the in-between 'plumbing' that people might look down on, but use all the same. There's good respect there, it's the equivalent of public service for 'omic work in the model organism which was her target.
I did my homework, I'm still trying to learn, it's only; I don't want to keep hurting people while I'm doing it.
Sorry for the essay. I do hope I can engage positively with you in the future. You seem to be considerate and thoughtful.
Oh I also wanted to add that it was really validating when you said you got what I was trying to say. I appreciate it and your apology (which I don't find necessary and will accept as I concede you have a better idea of what you are apologizing for) and want to say it made my good day which became bad near the end decent. Yeah, not good, still better than before.