was discussing this with a friend of mine (she's an anarchist but she actually organizes and shit). she was saying there can be no such thing as revolutionary masculinity because the two things are contradictory. but i'm a marxist so contradictions really butter my bread.
i think in a utopian, communist world gender identity would be completely different, to the point where it might not even be legible to us today, but my question is more about how we get from here to there. basically, can we men find a way to not be shitheads in such a way as to bring about communism, or does that not even make sense
feel free to dunk on me if this is a dumb question
Death to America
Ynow I think this way of thinking is incredibly flawed but I'm not clever enough to say why. Having been exposed to the alt right pipeline and weirdo redpill mgtow mra nonsense as a young lonely excluded teen it just never really grabbed me. Because its entire concept was predicated on hating women.
When I would speak to men suckered into this way of thinking it was like I was speaking to an alien i simply didn't understand it. And i think the core of it was purely just mysogyny. These men aren't looking for a role model they're looking for reasons to continue hating women. They don't need a better role model they need to stop dehumanising women and realise they are people and the rest will follow.
Also i don't think its accurate to say we have no good "masculine" role models. Hasan exists in all his himbo glory and is very popular. Also you think the right has anyone equivalent? Ignoring Tate what's left? Sneako? Aiden? Og MRA types like the amazing atheist? Thunderfoot? Cmon now, they don't even abide by their own criteria of masculinity
But what I want to say is the core of this issue isn't just some collection of young men who exist in a vacuum with no existing ideology simply fall into the far right for no other reason than cos there's no left opposition they fall into that hole BECAUSE they're already misogynistic and hateful lol.
I agree that misogyny is directly tied to this, but I also agree with @Awoo@hexbear.net that role models for teenagers is the answer. Whenever I'm doing anticapitalist propaganda while talking to men, I always touch on misogyny with it. Because both are related to empathy, someone who is truly empathic will fight both capitalism and misogyny. I refuse to believe teenagers are looking for reasons to hate women, they are angry and rebellious and looking for anything to validate their insecurities. When they find scum like Tate they think they found the bible, not because they understand the ideology, but just because he's contrarian and is talking about things relevant to teenage boys. @immuredanchorite@hexbear.net mentioned how easy it is to flip these ideas and that honestly works because these are kids, all we have to do is make them feel they're seen.
Edit: also this isn't just a social media scene with Tate or whatever, it's everywhere. If the kid looks to his dad, he's a misogynist. If he looks to older boys, they're misogynists. The only answer to validation teen boys get is rooted in hatred for women.
It's important to understand that these boys are genuinely looking for an instruction manual too. They want to know how to be "alpha", they want to know how to get girls, and they want to know how to be the genius like some protag from their favourite anime. They're looking for instruction manuals and they find these people who promise to be them. It's exactly how pua took off in the first place and this entire sphere of online influence began with that.
Have you been to the "manosphere"? There are plenty of "normal" looking guys in that space that are basically saying similar things, but they are not as bombastic as Tate. I hate to say it but this feels like a "don't investigate, don't speak" thing for a lot of leftists, who either like to put their head in the sand or minimize the issue. Awoo is right, and has always been right, the left needs an answer for this. For my part, I've basically lost all faith that the left will be able to reach these men suffering from the "male loneliness epidemic" and in my mind they are pretty much on the fascist pipeline, but hopefully I'm wrong.
"the left needs an answer for this"
Ok you're the left aren't you. Whats your answer? I keep hearing someone has to come up with an answer, what is it? I'd like the hear it
I made a post about this a while back: https://hexbear.net/post/613122?scrollToComments=false. And of course, like most threads actually trying to deal with this topic it got pretty much crickets in responses compared to the usual "is doo doo or poop the proper socialist way to say feces?" type posts (which unironically get like 100+ comments). I've pretty much given up on the left being able to meaningfully tackle male loneliess and to me the fash are gonna win, at least in western countries because they're gonna end up recruiting most of these guys.