2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org

Being told this is fairly reliable for info on the situation in Ukraine. let me know if it isn’t. https://liveuamap.com/ https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg?pictrs

  • hwoarang [any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    it's important to show a brave face to your own population and your own armed forces.

    if you go into a negotiation presenting anything but bare faced, insane confidence it'll be instantly spun as surrender. people don't tend to like carrying on fighting when they think their government is going to surrender at any moment.

    this doesn't make them stronger in the eyes of russia in negotiations and at no point have I said it did, that's your miscomprehension.

    it's a prerequisite, a thing you just have to do going into negotiations to not weaken your position.

    I'm not tone policing anything, I think the way this war is being comprehended on here is getting worse and worse so I'm pushing back at things I think are wrong.

    you can say what you want and I'll say what I want.

    • Vncredleader
      ·
      3 years ago

      if you go into a negotiation presenting anything but bare faced, insane confidence it’ll be instantly spun as surrender. people don’t tend to like carrying on fighting when they think their government is going to surrender at any moment.this doesn’t make them stronger in the eyes of russia in negotiations and at no point have I said it did, that’s your miscomprehension.

      couple hours ago

      do you think they should enter the talks saying “we’re getting our arses whipped and lay ourselves on the mercy of the russian federation?” you obviously bluff as hard as you can get away with going into negotiations. literally everyone in the world would do that.

      you are pushing back in opposite directions. If it is a prerequisite going into negotiations "to not weaken your position" as you said, then why does it

      if you think this obviously over the top media soundbite is going to be received as anything other than pablum by the russians you’re wrong. it’s totally irrelevant to the negotiations

      how does that square with

      if you go into a negotiation presenting anything but bare faced, insane confidence it’ll be instantly spun as surrender.

      What does it matter in negotiations if it only effects internal moral, which evidentially means going back to the not surrendering and having civilians die en mass plan, which btw dragging them off busses to fight sends the opposite message to the populace that the military is fine and handling it and peace talks will be with them in a dominant position.

      In negotiations the citizenry is not gonna be asked how they are feeling, if they are confident. hyping up that your country will fight till the last elderly man is not effecting negotiations at all to be sure, but it also does not strengthen them going in to negotiations. You policed Redcuban in the first place, you act like it is utterly insane that people scoff at propaganda, like we are dullards for remarking on these 4d chess moves by Ukraine that we just dont respect. If it is all just for the civilians, then they are also telling them they are going to have to fight desperately and cannot be allowed to leave. It contradicts itself, and this idea that the dragging people off busses thing is just for show. Their two shows are clashing is a way that is getting people killed. That's ghoulish. I get why they are doing it, we all do. But we are mocking it as pathetic because that's what nationalism is

      • hwoarang [any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        you are pushing back in opposite directions.

        nope. it's coherent, you're just not following it properly

        ukraine want to get the most concessions/best deal they can from any meeting

        if you don't message strongly to your own forces the summit can and will be spun as surrender

        ukraines forces believing that could become disheartened/abandon positions/whatever

        this would weaken ukraines position in negotiations

        this would stop them from getting the most beneficial deal in any negotiation

        I'm not going to have a discussion about fucking tone policing with you mate, deal with it