You also see a push towards more messed up content over time, such as the prevelance of incest porn in very common online spaces, and some truly bizarre fetishes appearing and becoming common in fringe groups. Things like the Ugly Bastard trope or NTR seem to just be extensions of misogyny and
removal of women's choice in sex, but more out there stuff like scat fetishists or medical gore porn seems to be cultivating a captive market by destroying their natural sense of decency(or preying on a lack their of) and creating a fetish I really have a hard time believing occurred naturally or healthily. There's also the capitalist idea of a zero sum game because someone always has sex either pushed onto them or they are overwhelmed by desire for it, either way making the other (usually masculine) party in control of the situation.
"natural sense of decency" lmao what the fuck do you think men have been up to these past few millenia. Maybe that's all the result of distortion of "natural" impulses as a result of various hierarchical societies but either way it's certainly not new or unique
Looking at stuff like neck extensions or feet binding or "English roses" or the weird fixation on sick and dying women or the modern mainstream suicide or drug addiction fetish some people seem to have. Considering most people outside of the cultural context which found these hot find them disturbing, I think there's a certain level of decency in most people stamped out of them by the culture they live in objectifying women. When they see a woman objectified in a different way they clock it as wrong many times.
Edit: yeah I see your point, I just think the newer forms of porn maybe have further reach
yeah, like, you're right that exploitative pornography sucks, that it exists at the intersection of capital and misogyny and exacerbates both. But the first two things you listed were, as far as I know, normal cultural practices for millions of people for thousands of years. I find the appeal to nature stuff real sus because it's pretty much unfalsifyable, and typically deployed against queer people. Like, "people must Naturally find this disgusting due to its misogynistic nature" is something that's frequently argued against against my existence as a trans woman. I don't think for a second that's what you believe + and you're basically right about algorithmically driven mass market porn, just think that it's better to make the materialist argument against it, rather than the reactionary one
They were normal cultural practices, but also incredibly painful and damaging to the people they were enacted on. If there is any basic human nature, it's tied to our ability to work together and take care of each other in a community, and the evil things we do run counter to that. It takes a lot.of programming to get people on board with these things, which is why I think it is against our nature to a certain extent.
You also see a push towards more messed up content over time, such as the prevelance of incest porn in very common online spaces, and some truly bizarre fetishes appearing and becoming common in fringe groups. Things like the Ugly Bastard trope or NTR seem to just be extensions of misogyny and removal of women's choice in sex, but more out there stuff like scat fetishists or medical gore porn seems to be cultivating a captive market by destroying their natural sense of decency(or preying on a lack their of) and creating a fetish I really have a hard time believing occurred naturally or healthily. There's also the capitalist idea of a zero sum game because someone always has sex either pushed onto them or they are overwhelmed by desire for it, either way making the other (usually masculine) party in control of the situation.
"natural sense of decency" lmao what the fuck do you think men have been up to these past few millenia. Maybe that's all the result of distortion of "natural" impulses as a result of various hierarchical societies but either way it's certainly not new or unique
Looking at stuff like neck extensions or feet binding or "English roses" or the weird fixation on sick and dying women or the modern mainstream suicide or drug addiction fetish some people seem to have. Considering most people outside of the cultural context which found these hot find them disturbing, I think there's a certain level of decency in most people stamped out of them by the culture they live in objectifying women. When they see a woman objectified in a different way they clock it as wrong many times.
Edit: yeah I see your point, I just think the newer forms of porn maybe have further reach
yeah, like, you're right that exploitative pornography sucks, that it exists at the intersection of capital and misogyny and exacerbates both. But the first two things you listed were, as far as I know, normal cultural practices for millions of people for thousands of years. I find the appeal to nature stuff real sus because it's pretty much unfalsifyable, and typically deployed against queer people. Like, "people must Naturally find this disgusting due to its misogynistic nature" is something that's frequently argued against against my existence as a trans woman. I don't think for a second that's what you believe + and you're basically right about algorithmically driven mass market porn, just think that it's better to make the materialist argument against it, rather than the reactionary one
They were normal cultural practices, but also incredibly painful and damaging to the people they were enacted on. If there is any basic human nature, it's tied to our ability to work together and take care of each other in a community, and the evil things we do run counter to that. It takes a lot.of programming to get people on board with these things, which is why I think it is against our nature to a certain extent.