Not really, we didn't make the big apparatuses then redo all our roadways to fit, we got bigger roads, then relised we could fit more in the apparatuses, then did so. We still have areas with small roadways and fire services must accommodate accordingly.
And yes they CAN outperform ours under specific conditions, ones that they where designed for, but put any one of them here and one of ours is going to clean their clock, its just a matter of how they are built and that we can fit more stuff, its not about "being macho"
Generally too they dont bring the biggest stuff out unless they need to, it is what is needed to put the fire out as fast as possible. I am sure if we had infrustructure more like Europe or Japan we would have fire trucks more like theirs, but our design pressures did not push us to small trucks,
I did not dispute either of those claims, I was providing context to their hesitancy to support the road reform. Both that goes aganst the way we are taught how road conjestion works that narrower streets could help, and that their primary concern is getting to where they are dispatched to as fast as they can. That their hesitency is not some "Carbrain macho I want worse cities" Idea that you where implying. I was also providing contexted to the sizes of the fire trucks, they are not this large for no reason. Yes they got this big because our roads are massive, however they are not this big for the fun of it, they have been engineered to take full advantage of the space they have.
I also would like to point out 3 things with your source, agian I am not disputing that US roads are bad and need to be changed ... HECK I am not even saying that I am aganst what LA is proposing, from what I read in that Article I like it, and I think it would also decrease conjestion and increase fire responce times, I was saying that the hesitancy being displayed was rational, and the advantage needs to be explained, however first while fires are becoming less common, the ones we are having are burning faster, hotter and more toxic, and are spreading faster. 2 There is a good chance as climate change happens fire calls will go up agian, especialy with this being a story in california. 3 What is mentioned as the bulk of the calls is EMS calls instead of fire, and I do not feel like that is the gotcha you think it is, because agian, responce times are vital on emergency medical calls aswell.
Agian The main Argument the fire service had to the reform was "Hey, you are going to take away road space, so the same number of cars that are currently driving are going to have less road space, the roads are already so conjested we cannot get any where and we are worried that putting the same amount of cars into less space will only make the situation worse" the responce is not to say "But look at all the deaths on the road" because their argument was never road deaths, I do not know who runs the EMS service in LA, but there is a chance it is the fire department, and most of the time fire fighters have to be EMTs anyway and sometimes respond to calls, they know and likely already care about those deaths, and if they run the ambulance service respond to them, but that was not their argument or concern, Meet them at their concern... Also do not just insult fire trucks, yes they are large, but understand that they are that big for a reason 1) because it allows them to preform better and 2) because how the US is now, allows them to be bigger, and by doing that they can 3) fit more stuff in and more powerful pumps and engines in, that refer to 1).
Agian I accept the claim, I am a proponent of road reform, and making the US less car centric, and increasing pedestrian and bycicle friendly areas, I however find your origional comment to be missing important context, and overly narrow in scope. I merely mentioned that you should take a step back and read why the concern was levied.
Not really, we didn't make the big apparatuses then redo all our roadways to fit, we got bigger roads, then relised we could fit more in the apparatuses, then did so. We still have areas with small roadways and fire services must accommodate accordingly.
And yes they CAN outperform ours under specific conditions, ones that they where designed for, but put any one of them here and one of ours is going to clean their clock, its just a matter of how they are built and that we can fit more stuff, its not about "being macho"
Generally too they dont bring the biggest stuff out unless they need to, it is what is needed to put the fire out as fast as possible. I am sure if we had infrustructure more like Europe or Japan we would have fire trucks more like theirs, but our design pressures did not push us to small trucks,
I am asking you to please accept that 40,000+ die on US roads every year and 90+% percent of firefighter dispatches are not fire related
I did not dispute either of those claims, I was providing context to their hesitancy to support the road reform. Both that goes aganst the way we are taught how road conjestion works that narrower streets could help, and that their primary concern is getting to where they are dispatched to as fast as they can. That their hesitency is not some "Carbrain macho I want worse cities" Idea that you where implying. I was also providing contexted to the sizes of the fire trucks, they are not this large for no reason. Yes they got this big because our roads are massive, however they are not this big for the fun of it, they have been engineered to take full advantage of the space they have.
I also would like to point out 3 things with your source, agian I am not disputing that US roads are bad and need to be changed ... HECK I am not even saying that I am aganst what LA is proposing, from what I read in that Article I like it, and I think it would also decrease conjestion and increase fire responce times, I was saying that the hesitancy being displayed was rational, and the advantage needs to be explained, however first while fires are becoming less common, the ones we are having are burning faster, hotter and more toxic, and are spreading faster. 2 There is a good chance as climate change happens fire calls will go up agian, especialy with this being a story in california. 3 What is mentioned as the bulk of the calls is EMS calls instead of fire, and I do not feel like that is the gotcha you think it is, because agian, responce times are vital on emergency medical calls aswell.
Agian The main Argument the fire service had to the reform was "Hey, you are going to take away road space, so the same number of cars that are currently driving are going to have less road space, the roads are already so conjested we cannot get any where and we are worried that putting the same amount of cars into less space will only make the situation worse" the responce is not to say "But look at all the deaths on the road" because their argument was never road deaths, I do not know who runs the EMS service in LA, but there is a chance it is the fire department, and most of the time fire fighters have to be EMTs anyway and sometimes respond to calls, they know and likely already care about those deaths, and if they run the ambulance service respond to them, but that was not their argument or concern, Meet them at their concern... Also do not just insult fire trucks, yes they are large, but understand that they are that big for a reason 1) because it allows them to preform better and 2) because how the US is now, allows them to be bigger, and by doing that they can 3) fit more stuff in and more powerful pumps and engines in, that refer to 1).
Agian I accept the claim, I am a proponent of road reform, and making the US less car centric, and increasing pedestrian and bycicle friendly areas, I however find your origional comment to be missing important context, and overly narrow in scope. I merely mentioned that you should take a step back and read why the concern was levied.