Is Stoicism actually worth anything? Should I read Meditations or is it shit? I’ve never looked into it cuz of its association with the alt-right. But I know that’s not the fault of a philosophy that existed for 2,000 years. But also, that doesn’t mean that philosophy is good or practical today.
Yes and no. Stoicism is useful as a method of practical philosophy, it helps quell existential angst. That said, while the particular stoic method advocated by Meditations is very civic minded, it also is very rich-guy oriented (which written by an emperor for the benefit of his successors, so duh) and therefore does not contain useful specific advice.
Most incel stoics completely ignore the civic aspects of stoicism. Marcus Aurelius indicates, for example, you should not trouble yourself with ending homelessness, but you can and should spend your time trying to end homelessness in your community. Or at least on your block, etc. The point is to create definable goals and achieve them, not worry about the big picture until you actually have the means to tackle it. However, it is again oriented towards the moral and honorable wealthy individual, not towards community action.
Marcus Aurelius indicates, for example, you should not trouble yourself with ending homelessness, but you can and should spend your time trying to end homelessness in your community. Or at least on your block, etc.
how'd that go marcus
for real there's something so ghoulish about aurelius, sitting in your opulence posting about how um actually slavery is wrong while you are emperor of fucking rome
To be fair to Aurelius, which we really needn't be, it would have been impossible for him to abolish slavery. He would have been killed and replaced almost immediately. He did do some stuff to lessen the burden of indentured servitude for Roman citizens though.
He's Roman Obama, but a) never actually spoke about these things in public, and b) absolutely and completely understood where his bread was buttered (with legionary and aristocratic support, which means having to support slavery).
The way he was really Roman Obama was how he treated the Senate, making them feel important even though he made all of the decisions.
It's really just like a painkiller imo. Stoicism really doesn't have any structural approach to society (since it's a ruling class ideology). If you're oppressed, all you can do is change your reaction to oppression, not the oppression itself.
Now, this is fine as a local strategy -- when, say, you're by yourself and harried by the state or some reactionary fuckers. A stoic comportment where you endure the "slings and arrows" as it were can help, especially if it allows you to create change with others in the future.
However, I think the thing about this is -- are you "happy" when the cop stops you/arrests you? I think that's where stoicism is entirely up its ass. Instead of deluding yourself that whatever happens to you, you can be happy, the rage against the injustice should be what keeps you going. Now, stoic attitudes can help you manage that rage (for instance, you think about the future happiness when the revolution ends this bullshit), but I think stoicism's "consider yourself happy even when suffering" is total fucking cope. Especially since it's not like there's any "change the world that's oppressing you/making you suffer" followup.
i think it's a cool read, and you should pair it with the tao te ching or similar, don't expect life-changing wisdom or anything, more food for thought
I'd say it's still very much practical today, as that was kinda their whole point (as in, actually do the shit, don't just debate it), but whether or not it's going to be anything new for you? Probably not, there's nothing really earth shattering about it, today.
Still, Meditations might be an interesting read for you anyway, but you could try out some Epictetus, for a shorter, more to the point book. As long as you avoid the modern $toics, like Holiday and such.
"Was Marcus [Aurelius] the Adam22 of his time" might be the single most hysterical question I've ever seen a redditor debatelord ask
Incels were the worst thing to happen to Stoicism. Then the best thing.
2000+ years of philosophy annihilated because of one pack of thirsty misogynists.
Is Stoicism actually worth anything? Should I read Meditations or is it shit? I’ve never looked into it cuz of its association with the alt-right. But I know that’s not the fault of a philosophy that existed for 2,000 years. But also, that doesn’t mean that philosophy is good or practical today.
Yes and no. Stoicism is useful as a method of practical philosophy, it helps quell existential angst. That said, while the particular stoic method advocated by Meditations is very civic minded, it also is very rich-guy oriented (which written by an emperor for the benefit of his successors, so duh) and therefore does not contain useful specific advice.
Most incel stoics completely ignore the civic aspects of stoicism. Marcus Aurelius indicates, for example, you should not trouble yourself with ending homelessness, but you can and should spend your time trying to end homelessness in your community. Or at least on your block, etc. The point is to create definable goals and achieve them, not worry about the big picture until you actually have the means to tackle it. However, it is again oriented towards the moral and honorable wealthy individual, not towards community action.
how'd that go marcus
for real there's something so ghoulish about aurelius, sitting in your opulence posting about how um actually slavery is wrong while you are emperor of fucking rome
literally roman obama
To be fair to Aurelius, which we really needn't be, it would have been impossible for him to abolish slavery. He would have been killed and replaced almost immediately. He did do some stuff to lessen the burden of indentured servitude for Roman citizens though.
He's Roman Obama, but a) never actually spoke about these things in public, and b) absolutely and completely understood where his bread was buttered (with legionary and aristocratic support, which means having to support slavery).
The way he was really Roman Obama was how he treated the Senate, making them feel important even though he made all of the decisions.
don't let the perfectus be the enemy of the bonus, this is the most important emperor of our lives
It's really just like a painkiller imo. Stoicism really doesn't have any structural approach to society (since it's a ruling class ideology). If you're oppressed, all you can do is change your reaction to oppression, not the oppression itself.
Now, this is fine as a local strategy -- when, say, you're by yourself and harried by the state or some reactionary fuckers. A stoic comportment where you endure the "slings and arrows" as it were can help, especially if it allows you to create change with others in the future.
However, I think the thing about this is -- are you "happy" when the cop stops you/arrests you? I think that's where stoicism is entirely up its ass. Instead of deluding yourself that whatever happens to you, you can be happy, the rage against the injustice should be what keeps you going. Now, stoic attitudes can help you manage that rage (for instance, you think about the future happiness when the revolution ends this bullshit), but I think stoicism's "consider yourself happy even when suffering" is total fucking cope. Especially since it's not like there's any "change the world that's oppressing you/making you suffer" followup.
i think it's a cool read, and you should pair it with the tao te ching or similar, don't expect life-changing wisdom or anything, more food for thought
I'd say it's still very much practical today, as that was kinda their whole point (as in, actually do the shit, don't just debate it), but whether or not it's going to be anything new for you? Probably not, there's nothing really earth shattering about it, today. Still, Meditations might be an interesting read for you anyway, but you could try out some Epictetus, for a shorter, more to the point book. As long as you avoid the modern $toics, like Holiday and such.
Only if you pronounce "Stoic" as "S-toy-k"
It's supposed to be hilarious, it's a bit