Ok, so the militias are able to defy the state and act independently. That just proves that the state is weak. I don't see how that shows that they're in charge. Do they regularly order him to do stuff?
No it proves the Nazis are de facto in control, and the US military fills in the gaps and funds and arms the Nazis. This is imperialist fascism, and Russia crushing it is based regardless of motive or if you trust their intent
This wasn’t just some militias. This is the national guard and the military. The military doesn’t obey the commander-in-chief and prefers their local swatstika covered officers and their guys in the interior ministry and intelligence. You know the people who actually wield the violent apparatus of the state.
The most important structural aspect of this issue is the Ministry of Internal Affairs .
Deputy Minister for Internal Affairs, Vadym Troyan, Azov Batallion nazi.
Minister for Internal Affairs, Arsen Avakov, Azov Batallion commander and nazi.
Why are these two important? Because the Ministry of Internal Affairs holds executive power over a HUGE amount of the important levers of power in the country, including:
National Guard of Ukraine
National Police of Ukraine
Special Tasks Patrol Police
State Border Guard Service of Ukraine
Ukrainian Sea Guard
State Emergency Service of Ukraine
State Migration Service of Ukraine
These roles, in control of nazis, gives free reign to the nazis to do ANYTHING they want. They control law and order in the country.
If you try to do anything the nazis don’t want they can just kill you or your family and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. The nazis are the police. They will not investigate that killing afterwards.
What environment does this create? One where the nazis get everything they want because everyone knows they can’t go against them.
Judging whether a geopolitical action is “good” based on what the intentions within the mind of Putin are is asinine libshit.
Their action is objectively, scientifically anti-imperialist and anti-fascist and the intentions of the actors is not relevant, only the actions themselves. You cannot even know the intentions, so you just assume the worst to maintain your chauvinist or ignorant neutrality
The problem is you cannot know what their actions 'objectively' are, as that does depend on their intentions.
If they want to defeat Nazis they will defeat them and leave (and maybe somehow ensure that they won't return).
If they want to annex Ukraine they will stay and impose their will on the Ukrainian people.
If they want to erase Ukrainian culture they will stay and suppress and possibly kill a certain section of Ukrainians.
If they want to ensure neutrality of Ukraine they could enforce demilitarisation, they could damage Ukraine enough to ensure unrest or economic destruction to prevent Ukraine from independently developing in a direction they don't like.
If they want to ensure Ukraine being independent but economically useful, they could try and install a useful government and ensure Ukraines economic subjugation.
I'm not saying that they want to do any of that, and not all of those things would be bad and some are more likely than others. And if the first thing happens and Ukrainian democracy is allowed to flourish afterwards I would be very happy to admit I'm wrong. But by saying that they're objectively, scientifically fighting imperialism and fascism you are making an assumption about their intention.
Now you are talking about “flourishing democracy” as if that’s even a possibility in bourgeois dictatorships. Exactly how much liberalism are you huffing right now?
Maybe that was poorly phrased but I think it's clear what I meant. A right to self-determination, at least as much as is possible under capitalism. A DotP would be great but I don't think that's realistic rn.
But accusing everyone who disagrees with you of liberalisms is easier than trying to understand what they're saying I suppose.
Then I disagree with how you're using those words. But honestly I really don't think we will come to an agreement on this so I think we should just leave it at that, it's pretty late where I live. We both agree that America is the worst and communism is good so I think thats fine for now.
:fidel-peace:
The “Ukrainian people” in the Donbas have made their decision, they are never going back to the fascist Ukraine that attacked them openly. They will be joining Russia, as will Crimea and Southern Ukraine. This is the natural consequence of collapse of legitimacy and power, and persecution of your own people.
Again, intentions don’t matter. They are not relevant. You can just analyze what has occurred with a Marxist anti-imperialist lens
I fully support the people of the Donbas in their right to self-determination.
Intentions matter when they decide what the warring parties will do. If Russias intention is to annex all of Ukraine they will do that. If they don't intend that then they won't. One result would be bad and one wouldn't.
You are judging current Russia off of future hypotheticals you have no way of knowing.
Judge Russia by their actions they have actually done, in the real world not the hypothetical one. Things like crushing NATO coups in Belarus, Syria and Kazakhstan. All objectively anti-imperialist actions, none of which they have annexed.
By the way, that mall story was actually that there was a massive arms and ammo warehouse right next door which is now a crater. Fire spread across the train tracks to the mall, which is a standing smoldering ruin from fire not missiles. It is the responsibility of Ukraine not to put their military targets right on top of heavily populated and trafficked civilian areas, or at least close the mall down. Russia striking an arms warehouse is a legitimate military target, it’s not their fault Ukraine always uses civilian hostages and human shields.
Ok, so the militias are able to defy the state and act independently. That just proves that the state is weak. I don't see how that shows that they're in charge. Do they regularly order him to do stuff?
No it proves the Nazis are de facto in control, and the US military fills in the gaps and funds and arms the Nazis. This is imperialist fascism, and Russia crushing it is based regardless of motive or if you trust their intent
This wasn’t just some militias. This is the national guard and the military. The military doesn’t obey the commander-in-chief and prefers their local swatstika covered officers and their guys in the interior ministry and intelligence. You know the people who actually wield the violent apparatus of the state.
It definitely does not prove that.
Nazis being defeated is good. But Russia isn't just defeating the nazis and then leaving are they. They just bombed a mall lmao.
Putin: Lenin was a moron for saying Ukraine has a right to exist
Online Marxist - Leninists : go off king
The most important structural aspect of this issue is the Ministry of Internal Affairs .
Deputy Minister for Internal Affairs, Vadym Troyan, Azov Batallion nazi. Minister for Internal Affairs, Arsen Avakov, Azov Batallion commander and nazi. Why are these two important? Because the Ministry of Internal Affairs holds executive power over a HUGE amount of the important levers of power in the country, including:
National Guard of Ukraine National Police of Ukraine Special Tasks Patrol Police State Border Guard Service of Ukraine Ukrainian Sea Guard State Emergency Service of Ukraine State Migration Service of Ukraine These roles, in control of nazis, gives free reign to the nazis to do ANYTHING they want. They control law and order in the country.
If you try to do anything the nazis don’t want they can just kill you or your family and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. The nazis are the police. They will not investigate that killing afterwards.
What environment does this create? One where the nazis get everything they want because everyone knows they can’t go against them.
That is definitely a more convincing argument. I'll look into that.
Moralist idealism. This shit is so boring. Look at effective actions and de jure power. Everything else is a smokescreen of ideology confusing you
Idealism is not when you make a statement about morality. I didn't make a universal statement about the morality of invasions.
Judging whether a geopolitical action is “good” based on what the intentions within the mind of Putin are is asinine libshit.
Their action is objectively, scientifically anti-imperialist and anti-fascist and the intentions of the actors is not relevant, only the actions themselves. You cannot even know the intentions, so you just assume the worst to maintain your chauvinist or ignorant neutrality
The problem is you cannot know what their actions 'objectively' are, as that does depend on their intentions.
If they want to defeat Nazis they will defeat them and leave (and maybe somehow ensure that they won't return).
If they want to annex Ukraine they will stay and impose their will on the Ukrainian people.
If they want to erase Ukrainian culture they will stay and suppress and possibly kill a certain section of Ukrainians.
If they want to ensure neutrality of Ukraine they could enforce demilitarisation, they could damage Ukraine enough to ensure unrest or economic destruction to prevent Ukraine from independently developing in a direction they don't like.
If they want to ensure Ukraine being independent but economically useful, they could try and install a useful government and ensure Ukraines economic subjugation.
I'm not saying that they want to do any of that, and not all of those things would be bad and some are more likely than others. And if the first thing happens and Ukrainian democracy is allowed to flourish afterwards I would be very happy to admit I'm wrong. But by saying that they're objectively, scientifically fighting imperialism and fascism you are making an assumption about their intention.
Now you are talking about “flourishing democracy” as if that’s even a possibility in bourgeois dictatorships. Exactly how much liberalism are you huffing right now?
Maybe that was poorly phrased but I think it's clear what I meant. A right to self-determination, at least as much as is possible under capitalism. A DotP would be great but I don't think that's realistic rn.
But accusing everyone who disagrees with you of liberalisms is easier than trying to understand what they're saying I suppose.
I’m not accusing you of anything, I’m recognizing moralism, idealism and liberalism in your comments and pointing it out
Then I disagree with how you're using those words. But honestly I really don't think we will come to an agreement on this so I think we should just leave it at that, it's pretty late where I live. We both agree that America is the worst and communism is good so I think thats fine for now. :fidel-peace:
The “Ukrainian people” in the Donbas have made their decision, they are never going back to the fascist Ukraine that attacked them openly. They will be joining Russia, as will Crimea and Southern Ukraine. This is the natural consequence of collapse of legitimacy and power, and persecution of your own people.
Again, intentions don’t matter. They are not relevant. You can just analyze what has occurred with a Marxist anti-imperialist lens
I fully support the people of the Donbas in their right to self-determination.
Intentions matter when they decide what the warring parties will do. If Russias intention is to annex all of Ukraine they will do that. If they don't intend that then they won't. One result would be bad and one wouldn't.
You are judging current Russia off of future hypotheticals you have no way of knowing.
Judge Russia by their actions they have actually done, in the real world not the hypothetical one. Things like crushing NATO coups in Belarus, Syria and Kazakhstan. All objectively anti-imperialist actions, none of which they have annexed.
By the way, that mall story was actually that there was a massive arms and ammo warehouse right next door which is now a crater. Fire spread across the train tracks to the mall, which is a standing smoldering ruin from fire not missiles. It is the responsibility of Ukraine not to put their military targets right on top of heavily populated and trafficked civilian areas, or at least close the mall down. Russia striking an arms warehouse is a legitimate military target, it’s not their fault Ukraine always uses civilian hostages and human shields.