"No ethical consumption" is supposed to be a call for vigilance against "green" capitalism, not an excuse to be a selfish piece of shit! :no-copyright:
also commenting here for any lurking omnis that its also untrue and veganism is kinda an exception, cos i was "the leftist" for an embarrassingly long time
like if literally everyone woke up one morning and decided they wanted to end worker exploitation, what could they do? they could go and buy fairtrade shit, except you cant actually buy fairtrade for most things, and fairtrade certification is opaque and probably mostly bought and paid for bullshit anyway, and you pay a bunch more which is impossible for a lot of people, and even if you had full success youd only get a marginal reduction in worker exploitation anyway, and there would still be a tonne of exploitation in non-consumer industries, and all the systemic pressures of capitalism are pushing against even this small bit of success. all this effort would get you, like, 10% success even in a wildly overoptimistic scenario? its an entirely systemic problem that cant be solved at an individual level, and we cant consume our way out of
but if everyone woke up and decided not to eat meat? they can just do that. "does it have animals in it?" is a black and white question where "does it have exploitation in it?" (or "does it have climate damage in it?") is not. i know my can of beans has zero cows in it, whereas i have no fucking idea how much worker exploitation is in my fairtrade coffee (probably still a lot). if everyone just went and ate shit without meat in it, no meat would get eaten.
we literally could consume our way out of it without even needing systemic intervention (though it would help!). and the systemic pressures of capitalism dont really apply - most vegan shit is cheaper to produce anyway, and the food industry would have to adapt or die (and because "does it have animals in it?" is so black-and-white, its very hard for them to greenwash their way out of it) - they would whine but they would pander to new vegans in the same way some places are already just starting to. capitalism has structural incentives to make the process of animal ag as awful as possible to maximise profit, and structural incentives to maximise worker exploitation and ignore environmental concerns in food production of every sort, but it doesnt really have the same innate structural incentives to produce meat instead of beans
like yeah even in this ridiculously optimistic hypothetical it wouldnt be perfect - obviously pushback from powerful animal ag industries, theres still plenty of worker exploitation in vegan food, the animals already in the animal ag industry would still probably meet a grim fate, there would be a whole bunch of pbc bullshit, the reclaimed land would probably still be used for something awful, and not everyone has much access to vegan food etc etc.
but its the one area where changing consumption habits on an individual level actually meaningfully progresses towards solving a fucking horrible problem. its also cool as shit. thankyou for coming to my ted talk
I'll even accept reduced harm especially if it's a downward trend, but most "the leftist" selfish types will do more harm just to spite criticism of their selfishness. You know, chud behavior.
fwiw i think its often a self-defensive lashing out from people who at their subconscious core know that what theyre doing is wrong and have a whole bunch of internalised guilt about it that they dont want to come to terms with, and dont want to deal with the idea that theyve been wrong about something so massive all their lives - and know that they would have to make substantial and scary-looking changes to their lives if they did acknowledge it. so they push back and lash out instead (as seen rather loudly on here a week or so ago)
but i do think a lot of those people (including the specific person im thinking of) are actually pretty close and just need the right push in the right direction, whereas actual chuds are obviously a complete lost cause on this one
Just like the OP image suggests, some of them get quite defensive about their "no ethical consumption therefore this is fine and good" particular treats, including child porn under the excuse that it's just a cartoon or whatever.
For those types, the intended push in the right direction can sometimes make them melt down and get really reactionary. :deeper-sadness:
i mean any :funny-clown-hammer: types who defend child porn under "no ethical consumption" can absolutely go die in a ditch, but i do get people being defensive about their treats cos people dont want to feel guilty about material things that give them a bit of joy in what can be pretty fucking miserable lives under late capitalism. i think a lot of those people also dont really understand understand just how much meat is quantitatively and qualitatively more awful than other treats (i know when i was an omni i just filed it in my background guilt along with any of my other unnecessary consumption and not doing enough praxis etc, and i really didnt get why it was so different, although i know in retrospect that my subconscious did). it took me watching dominion to really get it on more than an intellectual level, and i put off watching it and made excuses cos i think i knew deep down that once i did watch it id have to actually confront that guilt and change my ways and that would be hard and id look like an idiot who was wrong and anyway i do other praxis and there are other issues in the world that are affecting people etc etc. i didnt publicly lash out but i definitely lashed out internally so i could put my guilty conscience to rest
and then eventually i got there and i saw how much of a blind idiot id been and i changed shit and it was awesome. and i reckon most "ethical consumption" leftist omnis can get there as well, even if it takes them longer than we would like and theres defensive blow-ups along the way. and personally, i think my messages to them (including someone who may still be lurking) would be:
"watch dominion so you know why its different" (cw: extremely graphic violence)
"most vegans have been where you are, then we worked out we were wrong and we changed shit and theres no shame in admitting it, swallow your pride and get over yourself"
and "youre scared that its hard, but actually its way easier than you think to go vegan, the first month is tricky and then its really not hard at all and vegan food is tasty as hell"
im an optimist about the no ethical consumption types
"No ethical consumption" is supposed to be a call for vigilance against "green" capitalism, not an excuse to be a selfish piece of shit! :no-copyright:
also commenting here for any lurking omnis that its also untrue and veganism is kinda an exception, cos i was "the leftist" for an embarrassingly long time
like if literally everyone woke up one morning and decided they wanted to end worker exploitation, what could they do? they could go and buy fairtrade shit, except you cant actually buy fairtrade for most things, and fairtrade certification is opaque and probably mostly bought and paid for bullshit anyway, and you pay a bunch more which is impossible for a lot of people, and even if you had full success youd only get a marginal reduction in worker exploitation anyway, and there would still be a tonne of exploitation in non-consumer industries, and all the systemic pressures of capitalism are pushing against even this small bit of success. all this effort would get you, like, 10% success even in a wildly overoptimistic scenario? its an entirely systemic problem that cant be solved at an individual level, and we cant consume our way out of
but if everyone woke up and decided not to eat meat? they can just do that. "does it have animals in it?" is a black and white question where "does it have exploitation in it?" (or "does it have climate damage in it?") is not. i know my can of beans has zero cows in it, whereas i have no fucking idea how much worker exploitation is in my fairtrade coffee (probably still a lot). if everyone just went and ate shit without meat in it, no meat would get eaten.
we literally could consume our way out of it without even needing systemic intervention (though it would help!). and the systemic pressures of capitalism dont really apply - most vegan shit is cheaper to produce anyway, and the food industry would have to adapt or die (and because "does it have animals in it?" is so black-and-white, its very hard for them to greenwash their way out of it) - they would whine but they would pander to new vegans in the same way some places are already just starting to. capitalism has structural incentives to make the process of animal ag as awful as possible to maximise profit, and structural incentives to maximise worker exploitation and ignore environmental concerns in food production of every sort, but it doesnt really have the same innate structural incentives to produce meat instead of beans
like yeah even in this ridiculously optimistic hypothetical it wouldnt be perfect - obviously pushback from powerful animal ag industries, theres still plenty of worker exploitation in vegan food, the animals already in the animal ag industry would still probably meet a grim fate, there would be a whole bunch of pbc bullshit, the reclaimed land would probably still be used for something awful, and not everyone has much access to vegan food etc etc.
but its the one area where changing consumption habits on an individual level actually meaningfully progresses towards solving a fucking horrible problem. its also cool as shit. thankyou for coming to my ted talk
I'll even accept reduced harm especially if it's a downward trend, but most "the leftist" selfish types will do more harm just to spite criticism of their selfishness. You know, chud behavior.
fwiw i think its often a self-defensive lashing out from people who at their subconscious core know that what theyre doing is wrong and have a whole bunch of internalised guilt about it that they dont want to come to terms with, and dont want to deal with the idea that theyve been wrong about something so massive all their lives - and know that they would have to make substantial and scary-looking changes to their lives if they did acknowledge it. so they push back and lash out instead (as seen rather loudly on here a week or so ago)
but i do think a lot of those people (including the specific person im thinking of) are actually pretty close and just need the right push in the right direction, whereas actual chuds are obviously a complete lost cause on this one
Just like the OP image suggests, some of them get quite defensive about their "no ethical consumption therefore this is fine and good" particular treats, including child porn under the excuse that it's just a cartoon or whatever.
For those types, the intended push in the right direction can sometimes make them melt down and get really reactionary. :deeper-sadness:
i mean any :funny-clown-hammer: types who defend child porn under "no ethical consumption" can absolutely go die in a ditch, but i do get people being defensive about their treats cos people dont want to feel guilty about material things that give them a bit of joy in what can be pretty fucking miserable lives under late capitalism. i think a lot of those people also dont really understand understand just how much meat is quantitatively and qualitatively more awful than other treats (i know when i was an omni i just filed it in my background guilt along with any of my other unnecessary consumption and not doing enough praxis etc, and i really didnt get why it was so different, although i know in retrospect that my subconscious did). it took me watching dominion to really get it on more than an intellectual level, and i put off watching it and made excuses cos i think i knew deep down that once i did watch it id have to actually confront that guilt and change my ways and that would be hard and id look like an idiot who was wrong and anyway i do other praxis and there are other issues in the world that are affecting people etc etc. i didnt publicly lash out but i definitely lashed out internally so i could put my guilty conscience to rest
and then eventually i got there and i saw how much of a blind idiot id been and i changed shit and it was awesome. and i reckon most "ethical consumption" leftist omnis can get there as well, even if it takes them longer than we would like and theres defensive blow-ups along the way. and personally, i think my messages to them (including someone who may still be lurking) would be:
"watch dominion so you know why its different" (cw: extremely graphic violence)
"most vegans have been where you are, then we worked out we were wrong and we changed shit and theres no shame in admitting it, swallow your pride and get over yourself"
and "youre scared that its hard, but actually its way easier than you think to go vegan, the first month is tricky and then its really not hard at all and vegan food is tasty as hell"
im an optimist about the no ethical consumption types
New site tagline just dropped
:inshallah:
:based-department: