Listen, by all means, if it makes you feel better then arm up. But without a real community of like minded people to operate as a unit, Gun culture is just consumerism.
Tell that to a lone person of an oppressed minority who has to walk alone at night. They're just participating in consumer culture when they do the one thing that might give them a fighting chance if a group of local fash descends on them?
Defending yourself from individual harm is not the same as defending your community
I never said it was the same. (I wish I had a community that would help defend me as I helped defend them. ) I'm actually amazed I'm being mocked for this here.
I agree with all of that. What I was saying is that someone who is not in a community is not just engaging in "consumerism" (which is what zifnab25 was implying) by wanting a gun to protect themselves from very real threats where having one could save their life.
Tell that to a lone person of an oppressed minority who has to walk alone at night.
What, so someone physically threatens us because of our immutable traits and we're just going to take a gun out, risk having the entire neighborhood see us as the perpetrator and put ourselves under massive risk?
If I'm already under massive risk, and like I said, alone, then yes I would want whatever advantage I could possibly have to defend myself from harm. That's not consumerism.
Community defense would obviously be ideal. Not all of us have the benefit of being part of any community.
Tell that to a lone person of an oppressed minority who has to walk alone at night.
Lone Person Of An Oppressed Minority Who Has To Walk Alone At Night, if it makes you feel better then arm up. But without a real community of like minded people to operate as a unit, the gun you are buying is insufficient to protect you from a white nationalist police and paramilitery that wants to see you dead.
Exactly, that's the whole point of what's being argued. It's not just nationalist police and paramilitary, it's joe shmuck sitting at home all day with nothing better to do, it's the suited douche in the grocery store who gets off on ruining the days of people like you.
I don't want to say you are fighting a losing battle but you are at an automatic disadvantage precisely for the exact reason why you have not found a likeminded community. You are isolated and alone by design and you owning a gun isn't making you safer unless you have years of military training because in most scenarios I can think of you are absolutely fucked if you're by yourself and you've introduced a gun into the equation. You will be at a disadvantage both legally and physically, and 1 gun isn't enough to defend yourself from all the chuds around you and the court.
Yeah its horseshit. you dont need to be fucking Chris Kyle tier one operatorman to protect yourself from someone trying to hate crime you. telling people they will just end up hurting themselves is absolute lib shit
It's exactly what you said and it's liberal propaganda bullshit. Repeating the tired lib canard that "you are absolutely fucked if you’re by yourself and you’ve introduced a gun into the equation." :cringe: And yeah you may have qualified it with "in most scenarios I can think of" but that just speaks to a lack of imagination because I can think of plenty scenarios where being alone and having a gun could save a person's life. In fact I've literally known people who were in such scenarios where that was exactly the case.
You're discouraging vulnerable people from being able to protect themselves and it's gross.
You’re discouraging vulnerable people from being able to protect themselves and it’s gross.
You using minorities and vulnerable people as a cudgel for your lone wolf individualist argument is gross. I'm not discouraging vulnerable people from shit, the original comment was about how fetishizing gun proliferation isn't really worth anything without collectivization and you used the idea of vulnerable minority to push your argument. Get a gun, protect yourself, just get it through your head that you're not as safe as you think you are by just having a gun, by yourself.
Speaking as a minority and vulnerable person is "using them as a cudgel" now, huh?
The original comment was implying that anyone who isn't part of an org is just doing it for "consumerism" if they want a gun. Which is patently false.
I don't think I'm safe, but I would be safer with a gun. Get it through your head that broadcasting the false idea that anyone in any set of circumstances is always going to be worse off with a gun than not IS discouraging vulnerable people for whom that is obviously not true. You can twist the "original argument" and shift goalposts all you want.
The idea that you’re influenced by the consumerism and gun culture inherent to this country is not patently false.
I never implied otherwise. At all. But it is still not because of consumerism that many individuals (regardless of whether they are in a community/org) correctly feel that they should have or get a gun. Many of whom probably don't even want a gun and are horrified and sickened to be in circumstances to need one.
I don't like guns. I don't have a gun. But I have been looking into getting one because it's getting increasingly dangerous to even exist. Not only is there nothing wrong with that, I think people who are in fact vulnerable should also consider it, now more than ever. Even if they are not fortunate enough to be part of a community. I of course would also encourage anyone to become part of a community if they can, even that it is much more important than getting a gun. But I understand that it's just not feasible or possible in some cases.
I would honestly be shocked if this were not the consensus on the left.
What don't you get? You told me that a gun is insuffucient against a paramilitary group. I agree. But do you think that a paramilitary group is the only threat I might face as an individual where I might want to defend myself?
do you think that a paramilitary group is the only threat I might face as an individual where I might want to defend myself?
Are you hoping for an honor duel at high noon? Are you planning on winning a game of quick draw? Or are you hoping to wake up in the dead of night and peg an intruder right between the eyes on instinct?
Without other people around, you're vulnerable. All the guns in the world won't change that.
Wtf?? You responded with the jesse-wtf emoji so I took that to mean you didn't understand my response. So I explained it. Why are you being an asshole to me, I've said nothing even remotely mean spirited or in bad faith to you.
Are you hoping for an honor duel at high noon? Are you planning on winning a game of quick draw? Or are you hoping to wake up in the dead of night and peg an intruder right between the eyes on instinct?
First of all, I'm not just speaking for me but for any vulnerable person who has a high likelihood of being attacked. Would you mock a trans woman or a black woman who has to walk home at night in a town full of transphobes and white supremacists from wanting to protect herself from being another victim of a hate crime?
Without other people around, you’re vulnerable. All the guns in the world won’t change that.
This is literally not true. You really think there have never been instances where a person alone with a gun was able to save themselves with it? That just doesn't happen ever? Do you think there have never been instances where a person ended up the victim of a hate crime that might not have been had they been armed? If so, I don't know what else to say other that it's disappointing to me that a name I used to have a lot of respect for here on hexbear is still so infected with liberal :brainworms:
Some people do need a weapon to defend themselves, I agree. But the vast majority of gun ownership is still just consumerism. There’s a reason they release a new gun every year like an iPhone.
The fact that the vast majority of gun owners are chuds who are just participating in a toxic culture of consumerism does not mean it's universally true for every individual.
Listen, by all means, if it makes you feel better then arm up. But without a real community of like minded people to operate as a unit, Gun culture is just consumerism.
Tell that to a lone person of an oppressed minority who has to walk alone at night. They're just participating in consumer culture when they do the one thing that might give them a fighting chance if a group of local fash descends on them?
deleted by creator
I never said it was the same. (I wish I had a community that would help defend me as I helped defend them. ) I'm actually amazed I'm being mocked for this here.
deleted by creator
I agree with all of that. What I was saying is that someone who is not in a community is not just engaging in "consumerism" (which is what zifnab25 was implying) by wanting a gun to protect themselves from very real threats where having one could save their life.
What, so someone physically threatens us because of our immutable traits and we're just going to take a gun out, risk having the entire neighborhood see us as the perpetrator and put ourselves under massive risk?
If I'm already under massive risk, and like I said, alone, then yes I would want whatever advantage I could possibly have to defend myself from harm. That's not consumerism.
Community defense would obviously be ideal. Not all of us have the benefit of being part of any community.
Lone Person Of An Oppressed Minority Who Has To Walk Alone At Night, if it makes you feel better then arm up. But without a real community of like minded people to operate as a unit, the gun you are buying is insufficient to protect you from a white nationalist police and paramilitery that wants to see you dead.
The only threat to my well being are nationalist police and paramilitary?
Exactly, that's the whole point of what's being argued. It's not just nationalist police and paramilitary, it's joe shmuck sitting at home all day with nothing better to do, it's the suited douche in the grocery store who gets off on ruining the days of people like you.
I don't want to say you are fighting a losing battle but you are at an automatic disadvantage precisely for the exact reason why you have not found a likeminded community. You are isolated and alone by design and you owning a gun isn't making you safer unless you have years of military training because in most scenarios I can think of you are absolutely fucked if you're by yourself and you've introduced a gun into the equation. You will be at a disadvantage both legally and physically, and 1 gun isn't enough to defend yourself from all the chuds around you and the court.
carrying a gun to keep yourself from being hate crimed is bad if you dont have years of military training 🤔
It's lib brained nonsense. It's literally discouraging vulnerable people from being able to protect themselves from danger.
Yeah its horseshit. you dont need to be fucking Chris Kyle tier one operatorman to protect yourself from someone trying to hate crime you. telling people they will just end up hurting themselves is absolute lib shit
yeah cause thats totally what i said
It's exactly what you said and it's liberal propaganda bullshit. Repeating the tired lib canard that "you are absolutely fucked if you’re by yourself and you’ve introduced a gun into the equation." :cringe: And yeah you may have qualified it with "in most scenarios I can think of" but that just speaks to a lack of imagination because I can think of plenty scenarios where being alone and having a gun could save a person's life. In fact I've literally known people who were in such scenarios where that was exactly the case.
You're discouraging vulnerable people from being able to protect themselves and it's gross.
You using minorities and vulnerable people as a cudgel for your lone wolf individualist argument is gross. I'm not discouraging vulnerable people from shit, the original comment was about how fetishizing gun proliferation isn't really worth anything without collectivization and you used the idea of vulnerable minority to push your argument. Get a gun, protect yourself, just get it through your head that you're not as safe as you think you are by just having a gun, by yourself.
Speaking as a minority and vulnerable person is "using them as a cudgel" now, huh?
The original comment was implying that anyone who isn't part of an org is just doing it for "consumerism" if they want a gun. Which is patently false.
I don't think I'm safe, but I would be safer with a gun. Get it through your head that broadcasting the false idea that anyone in any set of circumstances is always going to be worse off with a gun than not IS discouraging vulnerable people for whom that is obviously not true. You can twist the "original argument" and shift goalposts all you want.
The idea that you're influenced by the consumerism and gun culture inherent to this country is not patently false.
And again you twist what the argument even is.
I never implied otherwise. At all. But it is still not because of consumerism that many individuals (regardless of whether they are in a community/org) correctly feel that they should have or get a gun. Many of whom probably don't even want a gun and are horrified and sickened to be in circumstances to need one.
I don't like guns. I don't have a gun. But I have been looking into getting one because it's getting increasingly dangerous to even exist. Not only is there nothing wrong with that, I think people who are in fact vulnerable should also consider it, now more than ever. Even if they are not fortunate enough to be part of a community. I of course would also encourage anyone to become part of a community if they can, even that it is much more important than getting a gun. But I understand that it's just not feasible or possible in some cases.
I would honestly be shocked if this were not the consensus on the left.
:jesse-wtf:
What don't you get? You told me that a gun is insuffucient against a paramilitary group. I agree. But do you think that a paramilitary group is the only threat I might face as an individual where I might want to defend myself?
Why you're being deliberately dense.
Are you hoping for an honor duel at high noon? Are you planning on winning a game of quick draw? Or are you hoping to wake up in the dead of night and peg an intruder right between the eyes on instinct?
Without other people around, you're vulnerable. All the guns in the world won't change that.
Wtf?? You responded with the jesse-wtf emoji so I took that to mean you didn't understand my response. So I explained it. Why are you being an asshole to me, I've said nothing even remotely mean spirited or in bad faith to you.
First of all, I'm not just speaking for me but for any vulnerable person who has a high likelihood of being attacked. Would you mock a trans woman or a black woman who has to walk home at night in a town full of transphobes and white supremacists from wanting to protect herself from being another victim of a hate crime?
This is literally not true. You really think there have never been instances where a person alone with a gun was able to save themselves with it? That just doesn't happen ever? Do you think there have never been instances where a person ended up the victim of a hate crime that might not have been had they been armed? If so, I don't know what else to say other that it's disappointing to me that a name I used to have a lot of respect for here on hexbear is still so infected with liberal :brainworms:
Some people do need a weapon to defend themselves, I agree. But the vast majority of gun ownership is still just consumerism. There’s a reason they release a new gun every year like an iPhone.
The fact that the vast majority of gun owners are chuds who are just participating in a toxic culture of consumerism does not mean it's universally true for every individual.