it's because they haven't read it
:matt-jokerfied:
no seriously, on the recent chapo episode with brace they went on this 10 minute rant about the book and then every admitted they had never read it
good stuff
it's because they haven't read it
:matt-jokerfied:
no seriously, on the recent chapo episode with brace they went on this 10 minute rant about the book and then every admitted they had never read it
good stuff
eh i think its more about their privileges that lead them to have a reactionary character. I do think conditions have changed of course since then but i think its still pretty relative and worth engaging in, if not just as a historical account. I'm white trash and have definitely benefited from being white and living majority of my life as a cis man in countless, imperceptible ways while being somehow downardly mobile from my shitty start. My friend is making 100k+ with just a high school diploma from nepotism after a couple years of roughing it alongside me. I still see tons of reactionary ass takes that come from privilege and the ignorance that can bring on the internet, including hexbear. I mean stupidpol exist lol. Also think theres a cultural element of feeling like white people are entitled to petite bourgeois privilege that persists in a lot of white working class people even while their material conditions are shit. We have to remember how strong propaganda is america, americans arent making policy decisions rationally based on their bank account otherwise we wouldnt have managers at retail stores making 45k thinking its horrible taxing elon musk and stuff like that
Oh of course, didn't mean to imply that white privilege doesn't exist or that people shouldn't read Settlers. I just meant that I think the broad swathe of white working class people under 40 are more open to socialist ideas, and more willing to support liberatory PoC movements, than they were in the 70s and 80s.
I thought this book was new. It's from 83. Id say it's premise from what i under stand having not read it, is probably very outdated at this point
I think this is an interesting point. I do think conditions have changed since Sakai wrote the book that Bluegrass_Buddhist points out. But it seems like the "echo" of past privileges still resonates with the white working class, as well as plenty of explicit privileges that still exist.
The thing is you can’t really hand wave in whole or in part what settlers is talking bc it’s like 50 years old. That’s like libs saying Marx isn’t relevant bc computers or whatever, the analysis In the book is through broad periods of America, and those histories will continue to shape the present and future. Also it’s not like white people being downwardly mobile and being into socialism is a new thing. Before the red scare a lot of white workers were socialist and a large part of the book is dedicated to this period which honestly mirrors current events in a lot of ways. I’d be suspicious of saying conditions have changed so this isn’t relevant now when I continue to see privileged people fall into similar pitfalls, how often poc still have to point out how their voices are marginalized over white comrades in purportedly leftist spaces.
That's a very good point. My assumption was that in a post-1992, post-2014, post-2020 world, where US demographics are becoming much less white, that young white workers would be more aware of and want to guard against racism in their workplaces and orgs. But maybe that was wishful thinking on my part.
Well we’re having these discussions now so that’s definitely a good thing and probably something you wouldn’t have seen as much in the time periods settler was talking about. I think things are improving for sure I just think it’s good to be cautious about saying everything is equal and coming into leftist spaces saying that bc we still have a lot of work to do to get there and it definitely privileges white people for that to bc widespread if I’m making sense.
Sorry I’m writing these between editing at work so if I’m being inarticulate that’s why lol
No worries! I get what you're saying, and I agree. Sorry if it seems like I was saying that white supremacy doesn't exist in left spaces or that whiteness isn't still a major hurdle, maybe the biggest, to broad working class solidarity. I just meant that, as conditions in the US continue to spiral, perhaps the barriers that separate white workers from a lasting class conciousness (one that includes their privileged relationship to PoC workers) aren't as concrete as they were in Sakai's day, or in the eras he examined.
Sorry, to clarify I'm all on board with Settlers, I just think there's value in adding to it based on current conditions vs 50 years ago.
I will attest that I’m a white person raising white kids in the core and that my child, through no signaling of mine, has it in their head that we ought to own nice cars, own designer clothes, and go on several vacations a year. I know some of this is just children wanting to do fun stuff and have cool things, but the specifics of what things are absolutely reek of white nostalgia for the 50’s and a general romanticization of bourgeois culture.
I swear I’m not trying to drag my kid for not being sufficiently proletarian. Just pointing out that through media consumption and talking to their peers they’ve seeped up the same propaganda as everyone else, no matter how much I’ve made sure my parenting doesn’t reflect or encourage that