at the same time, we've seen that deplatforming is effective. it's not trivial to create a replacement space when a group gets deplatformed.
just look at the challenges we've had building hexbear! it's arguably better than what preceded it, but we objectively have a smaller audience, etc.
when Trump was finally deplatformed after losing the election, he struggled to reach nearly as many people.
I sincerely think that earlier, more aggressive deplatforming across a range of sites would have meaningfully hurt the fascist movement in this country, even if it was only temporary or only to an extent or whatever.
I agree with you but as a massively reformed white dork that was hanging out in that absolute shitpit roughly in the beginning until way too long after it became infested, 4chan was not the platform white nationalism used to organize at the time. Deplatforming them there would have helped a little bit, sure, but it was a concerted and organized effort by stormfront(unironically) to infiltrate and control the culture of 4chan.
Before any real effort was put into combating stormfront by govs etc at the time, they already had a platform to organize and launch their efforts from. That's how it is that they managed to take over 4chan in the first place. Numerous people ranted and raved about it posting receipts at the time but it got lost or drowned intentionally in the sea of shit, and without any real place that was already organized to counter it, stormfront won.
I think it would have been a crucial moment to prevent (or at least massively reduce) the merging of "meme culture" or whatever the fuck it should be called, and like rampant blatant white nationalist rhetoric, but I think that's a lot more obvious in retrospect than it was (especially to 'apolitical' white guys who grew up in safe bubbles) at the time.
Not to excuse it at all, just to provide what I remember as order at which that shit took place. Gamergate was their victory lap, not their opening shot.
Also to be clear (edit): I agree with everything you've said though and it would have helped and absolutely should have happened. Nothing was in disagreement just kind of adding to the conversation/context.
at the same time, we've seen that deplatforming is effective. it's not trivial to create a replacement space when a group gets deplatformed.
just look at the challenges we've had building hexbear! it's arguably better than what preceded it, but we objectively have a smaller audience, etc.
when Trump was finally deplatformed after losing the election, he struggled to reach nearly as many people.
I sincerely think that earlier, more aggressive deplatforming across a range of sites would have meaningfully hurt the fascist movement in this country, even if it was only temporary or only to an extent or whatever.
I agree with you but as a massively reformed white dork that was hanging out in that absolute shitpit roughly in the beginning until way too long after it became infested, 4chan was not the platform white nationalism used to organize at the time. Deplatforming them there would have helped a little bit, sure, but it was a concerted and organized effort by stormfront(unironically) to infiltrate and control the culture of 4chan.
Before any real effort was put into combating stormfront by govs etc at the time, they already had a platform to organize and launch their efforts from. That's how it is that they managed to take over 4chan in the first place. Numerous people ranted and raved about it posting receipts at the time but it got lost or drowned intentionally in the sea of shit, and without any real place that was already organized to counter it, stormfront won.
I think it would have been a crucial moment to prevent (or at least massively reduce) the merging of "meme culture" or whatever the fuck it should be called, and like rampant blatant white nationalist rhetoric, but I think that's a lot more obvious in retrospect than it was (especially to 'apolitical' white guys who grew up in safe bubbles) at the time.
Not to excuse it at all, just to provide what I remember as order at which that shit took place. Gamergate was their victory lap, not their opening shot.
Also to be clear (edit): I agree with everything you've said though and it would have helped and absolutely should have happened. Nothing was in disagreement just kind of adding to the conversation/context.
This is true. Alot of specifc chan culture would never have had the chances to devop.