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Loukanikos (Greek: Λουκάνικος) aka "the sausage loukaniko", initially named "Theodor", was a Greek riot dog that participated in almost every anti-austerity protest in Greece. He was commonly known for joining protests, barking at police, helping in street battles with the Greek police as well as participating in anarchist rallies and picket lines. Loukanikos had a reputation of being fearless, usually being in front of the protests and having tear gas thrown at him multiple times. He was active throughout all Greek protests and often leading the protesters towards the police. Initially a stray, he moved from building to building, but was said to have preferred to be on the streets. He was groomed and cared for by multiple left-wing organizations. Loukanikos died in 2014 at the age of ten. This was due to health problems because of ingestion of tear gas, which he sustained due to constant protests. A memorial and large burial was held shortly after. Loukanikos was the subject of a large amount of monuments and murals in his honor.
Dogs hate fascists, it's just science. :doggo-matapacos: :comrade-doggo:
bonus libcom.org photo gallery of Loukanikos in action CW he is being kicked by a pig in one of them
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Tbh, there wouldn't be a problem if they'd just deal with the issue and rip off the bandaid. The admin teams are artificially prolonging the conflict through some silly ideology of tolerance. A Masto admin would've defederated within 5 minutes of reading their report logs and been done with it.
The issues with beehaw could be resolved by fucking them off entirely yes but this doesn't change the problem of the mechanics of federation that are so heavily abusable right now in the reddit-clone format.
I strongly feel like "jurisdiction" should be a thing. That if one site federates with another site it is agreeing that the other site is moderated to the other site's rules while their site is moderated to their rules - ie, don't fuck around in the other site's jurisdiction.
This however is not how it is in practice because federation is essentially a copy of a post on a different server where different instances all act in a free for all silencing whoever they want to within their specific community without any notification to the original user and without any indication that the silencing is occurring to other users.
The mechanics of it are open to some serious fucking around and without something like a federation code to prevent it there's a real problem.
https://lemmy.ml/post/443745/comment/263901
I've laid out some of my thoughts here where I slowly came to terms with how it works vs how it probably should work in order to prevent this behaviour.
I like your post over there. Reminds me of Guild Alliances in an MMO.
A federation in my mind kind of is that?
Like the way I see these Lemmy instances is like super-subreddits. The federation is like "reddit" while the instances are subreddits but with the powers of reddit.
The benefits of federation are exchange of content and userbases to create more value that benefits all members of the federation (even if they disagree ideologically). In order to create that though you need jurisdictions of moderation. If a post was generated by Hexbear, its a hexbear post and subject to hexbear rules carried out on hexbear. It shouldn't be moderated completely differently to the individual whims of instances across the federation, that is a recipe for a lot of instance to do a lot of fucking around.
The mechanics of federation are a fucking mess in the format of a reddit clone. If these issues are not resolved it will be an even bigger issue than reddit currently is if it grows to the size of reddit. I can think of SOOOO many ways that I could fuck around if I ran one of these instances, and none of them are good. I'm legitimately concerned that these mechanics could hurt us more than help us in their current format.
Considering that this has never been done before, I expect some unforseen problems to crop up along the way. I just hope the devs and community are flexible enough to iterate on these mechanisms without either splintering or getting locked into some permanent status quo.
Yes I agree. One problem however is that as time goes on their changes to key underlying mechanics of the system will become harder. Instances angry at changes down the line will weaponise their userbase to apply pressure on development direction. An instance actively trying to participate in a large federation while suppressing the instances of the left (thus sending their liberal comments out into the federation while removing left and left-adjacent opposition from being able to see or respond to those comments) can do more damage to the left in that kind of ecosystem than a subreddit can on reddit.
If their content is good other apolitical (lib) instances won't defederate with them, they'll just shrug at it, they won't care that much. While in other cases it won't even be noticed at all because the behaviour will be buried under months of modlog entries spread out over a huge amount of time.
This was one of the most successful and detrimental attack vectors on Hexbear. However, I do have trust that nutomic and dessalines are good comrades with a solid theoretical basis for their actions, at least in intent. So I think they’ll be open to relevant arguments made from a theoretical perspective as needed, assuming there are those around to make those arguments respectfully and assertively.
Eventually some more insular structure will need to form to keep their ability to develop and moderate intact. Maybe a UX researcher or someone to filter new issues would help. But until then, I am appreciative of their ability to do all the work they do and remain well-composed and productive.
The reason I raise it is because the development of this problem will go like this:
Early on instance might be able to stop this malicious behaviour by not being so fucking naive and demanding more respect to other instances users between instances in the federation. Like I mention in the linked thread with the federation council but in an unwritten code sort of way. Right now that's not happening though and wrecker instances are fucking around while a couple of liberal members of the lemmy.ml team are being blunderingly naive about the intentions and behaviour occurring.
Assuming the wrecker stuff does get resolved early on because federated instances get their act together about this malicious behaviour. Growth happens things go reasonably fine for quite a while.
A certain size threshold is reached where this approach of instance owners all knowing the history of Lemmy and being aware of its abuses starts to go away, keeping people up to speed on best practices to avoid wrecker stuff and political and ideological manipulation becomes impossible. Wrecker instances start to make a comeback and become a serious problem. Development realises that this isn't going to work out and something needs to be done with the mechanics or the vision of the project will be bad in a "oh god it was harder for leftists to be deplatformed on reddit" kind of way.
Mechanics get changed. MASSIVE outrage is incited at the change by the wrecker instances. They successfully manage to make several other naive liberal non-political instances believe them and join in on their shit. Absolutely huge shitshow ensues that turns into some really nasty stuff with the demand that the mechanic be returned and that features that previously existed shouldn't be taken away. This becomes a real real problem at scale. Copycat projects spring up with dubious origins as an "alternative to lemmy", exoduses are incited.
This is the pathway I see for this mechanic. I don't see it as good and I can't see it playing out another way without changes.
I’ve been saying for years that Lemmy is going to need more governance structures and that the core devs need to find someone to delegate that governance to. The “ideology of tolerance” line is spot on. Whatever delusions we had of ideological purity at the launch of Hexbear were immediately torn down by the reality of dealing with malicious actors. Lemmy has dealt with plenty of spam, but not with nearly as much socially-adept sabotage.
Federation should be mutual federation with either party able to defederate at any time. Ideally there would communication channels for admins similar to mod mail but only for admin teams