No, it isn't. "Capitalism" doesn't depend on growth. You can have a shrinking economy, even an intentional degrowth economy, which is still capitalist.
Whatever thing it is you're referring to that assumes infinite growth, that thing isn't capitalism.
a capitalist society without growth is a failed society that will quickly be overthrown. It absolutely depends on growth, what incentive is there to invest capital otherwise?
It absolutely depends on growth, what incentive is there to invest capital otherwise?
You're conflating growth of particular capitalists' wealth, "profit", and growth of the entire economy. Capitalism's goal is profit but profit doesn't depend on growth of the entire economy. There are capitalists who profit even while the economy shrinks.
OP's meme was referring to growth of the economy, not profit. Again, capitalism doesn't depend on growth (of the economy).
you're missing the point. a system predicated on the infinite growth of either is objectively a bad idea. either way capitalism can't work. nitpicking this is missing the forest for the trees
Capitalism specifically incentivizes seeking maximum profit, which also means increasing profit growth at all costs. Finance and speculation, inherent to capitalism, further pushes and necessitates further expansion to cover the average costs of the gambling and speculation. You have to remember recessions and depressions are not always contractions in the economy, they are usually just caused by less than "necessary" amounts of growth.
You're conflating growth of particular capitalists' wealth, "profit", and growth of the entire economy. Capitalism's goal is profit but profit doesn't depend on growth of the entire economy. There are capitalists who profit even while the economy shrinks.
OP's meme was referring to growth of the economy, not profit. Again, capitalism doesn't depend on growth (of the economy).
Many capitalists are losing their investments when the economy shrinks though, even if some benefit. The system as a whole needs growth, as all the propertied are expecting to continue accumulating constantly, as physical resources dry up, and workers can hardly be exploited any more.
It literally is though. In the middle ages would you have said "it's not all feudalism, there's actually some merchants too!"
So the current global market, as counted by GDP isn't capitalism?
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
Oh, wait, you're right. China's socialist, so not the whole international system. Any given imperialist country still relies on growth to keep capitalism alive, though.
While technically true in theory, I was pointing out how in practice people tend to implement it differently. It doesn't help that almost every irl system that people describe as "capitalist" is not pure - e.g. the UK (& the USA in the era of 50s-60s) are a mixture of socialist policies & capitalist ones, like there can be "public" (socialism) schools funded by taxpayer dollars and controlled by the government side-by-side along with "private" (capitalist) schools that aim to provide a different experience (usually higher-end but oftentimes something else like a more religious affiliation). So the "pure capitalism" theoretical model does not seem to have much irl practical application, without adding all of those extra features that while not mandatory in the theory, seem to almost always be used in practice.
Right, it is quite a stretch, I get it. Citizens pay taxes and vote thereby have extremely diluted control over the means of production for schools, as opposed to private schools where they control it by means of their dollars going towards whichever one they choose (causing them to compete for that privilege). It's an extremely watered-down form of socialism existing inside of an other capitalist-dominated society, but the main point is that whatever it is / whatever words are used to describe it, the goal of it runs counter to the goal of capitalism to make profits, and instead just benefits the populace directly (many caveats aside, like how schools are funded in large measure from local taxation, causing a segregation effect where the rich tend to congregate together and thus have good schools whereby the poor must also congregate together, out of whatever is leftover, and thereby have lesser quality schooling - but that aside, within a given school district, the aim is usually for the children to be taught equally without regard for ability to pay, though heavy caveats exist there too e.g. supplies, lunches, etc.).
Anyway, I cannot defend the OP meme, I was only trying to point out what looks to have been the POV behind it.
That’s just capitalism. It’s absurd to define capitalism as only capitalism absent government intervention when the government has always existed on their behalf (as long as the system’s been in place).
Capitalism is not based on the notion that you can enjoy limitless growth in a closed, finite system.
It is the way we do it! :-P
No, it isn't. "Capitalism" doesn't depend on growth. You can have a shrinking economy, even an intentional degrowth economy, which is still capitalist.
Whatever thing it is you're referring to that assumes infinite growth, that thing isn't capitalism.
a capitalist society without growth is a failed society that will quickly be overthrown. It absolutely depends on growth, what incentive is there to invest capital otherwise?
You're conflating growth of particular capitalists' wealth, "profit", and growth of the entire economy. Capitalism's goal is profit but profit doesn't depend on growth of the entire economy. There are capitalists who profit even while the economy shrinks.
OP's meme was referring to growth of the economy, not profit. Again, capitalism doesn't depend on growth (of the economy).
... ok? and? a system that requires infinite profits in a finite world is still stupid as fuck
So you're saying stupid is bad?...
when it comes to an entire economic system that has the final say on how EVERYBODY ON THE ENTIRE PLANET LIVES THEIR LIVES FROM START TO FINISH?
yeah it's fucking terrible
OP's comment was stupid.
what makes it stupid?
The conflation of economic growth and profit.
you're missing the point. a system predicated on the infinite growth of either is objectively a bad idea. either way capitalism can't work. nitpicking this is missing the forest for the trees
LOL
Capitalism specifically incentivizes seeking maximum profit, which also means increasing profit growth at all costs. Finance and speculation, inherent to capitalism, further pushes and necessitates further expansion to cover the average costs of the gambling and speculation. You have to remember recessions and depressions are not always contractions in the economy, they are usually just caused by less than "necessary" amounts of growth.
You're conflating growth of particular capitalists' wealth, "profit", and growth of the entire economy. Capitalism's goal is profit but profit doesn't depend on growth of the entire economy. There are capitalists who profit even while the economy shrinks.
OP's meme was referring to growth of the economy, not profit. Again, capitalism doesn't depend on growth (of the economy).
Many capitalists are losing their investments when the economy shrinks though, even if some benefit. The system as a whole needs growth, as all the propertied are expecting to continue accumulating constantly, as physical resources dry up, and workers can hardly be exploited any more.
That doesn't contradict what I said.
The system as a whole isn't capitalism.
It literally is though. In the middle ages would you have said "it's not all feudalism, there's actually some merchants too!"
So the current global market, as counted by GDP isn't capitalism?
Oh, wait, you're right. China's socialist, so not the whole international system. Any given imperialist country still relies on growth to keep capitalism alive, though.
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?
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While technically true in theory, I was pointing out how in practice people tend to implement it differently. It doesn't help that almost every irl system that people describe as "capitalist" is not pure - e.g. the UK (& the USA in the era of 50s-60s) are a mixture of socialist policies & capitalist ones, like there can be "public" (socialism) schools funded by taxpayer dollars and controlled by the government side-by-side along with "private" (capitalist) schools that aim to provide a different experience (usually higher-end but oftentimes something else like a more religious affiliation). So the "pure capitalism" theoretical model does not seem to have much irl practical application, without adding all of those extra features that while not mandatory in the theory, seem to almost always be used in practice.
You're not describing socialism, socialism is when the workers own the means of production. You're describing capitalist government programs.
Right, it is quite a stretch, I get it. Citizens pay taxes and vote thereby have extremely diluted control over the means of production for schools, as opposed to private schools where they control it by means of their dollars going towards whichever one they choose (causing them to compete for that privilege). It's an extremely watered-down form of socialism existing inside of an other capitalist-dominated society, but the main point is that whatever it is / whatever words are used to describe it, the goal of it runs counter to the goal of capitalism to make profits, and instead just benefits the populace directly (many caveats aside, like how schools are funded in large measure from local taxation, causing a segregation effect where the rich tend to congregate together and thus have good schools whereby the poor must also congregate together, out of whatever is leftover, and thereby have lesser quality schooling - but that aside, within a given school district, the aim is usually for the children to be taught equally without regard for ability to pay, though heavy caveats exist there too e.g. supplies, lunches, etc.).
Anyway, I cannot defend the OP meme, I was only trying to point out what looks to have been the POV behind it.
That’s just capitalism. It’s absurd to define capitalism as only capitalism absent government intervention when the government has always existed on their behalf (as long as the system’s been in place).
Expand.
It's also not a closed, finite system because it relies on the extraction of resources and labor from outside of the imperial core.
sadly the earth is a finite system except for inputting radiation and outputting entropy
The closed system refers to planet Earth.