Yeah exactly. On :reddit-logo:, the pornfree subreddit is better and bans nofap talking points if I remember correctly. Also lot of people conflate masturbation with porn which leads to nofap type thinking, but it's perfectly fine to masturbate without porn.

It's like AA and addiction. The AA system is terrible and has bad outcomes when addiction is already very hard to manage, but it has so much cultural penetration that most people don't even know there are alternatives.