Why do people here really not like Trotskyists? Is it just because of his beef with Stalin and not an actual criticism of his views? Do people really not think a global movement would be superior for the betterment of all people?

Edit: Thank you to everyone who provided context and history, y’all are a wealth of knowledge.

  • Greenleaf [he/him]
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    9 months ago

    There are Trots and then there are Trots. If someone wants to place the writing and ideas of Trotsky on a pedestal and feel he had particularly keen insights… ok, fine, whatever. I don’t particularly see it but if they’re otherwise just standard issue Marxists then I don’t really have a problem with that. I feel Trots like Kshama Sawant fall into this category.

    The problem is that so many Trots have just unbelievably bad takes on not just AES states, but also on other pretty much all official enemies of the US State Dept. Laura Garza is a somewhat prominent Trot. While she probably represents the more extreme end of shitty Trot takes, read this verbal diarrhea and try not to get extremely angry:

    How much assistance should the U.S. provide — military and/or financial — to foreign countries at war, like Israel or Ukraine? What, if any, should be the litmus test for American allies to receive assistance from the U.S.?

    I defend Israel’s right to exist as a refuge for Jews and condemn the Jew-hating pogrom organized by Hamas with the backing of the Iranian regime. The capitalist regime in Tehran and the reactionary forces it backs in Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad are enemies not only of Jews but of working people of all nationalities. So long as capitalism exists, in times of crisis, the rulers will turn to scapegoating Jews to smash the working class as they did in Nazi Germany. The fight for workers’ power and socialism is the only solution to end the anti-working class poison of Jew-hatred.

    I stand with the people of Ukraine in their battle for independence and sovereignty over all of Ukraine and against Moscow’s reactionary invasion.

    I don’t support the policies of the U.S. capitalist class and their military, which is used worldwide to defend U.S. profits and imperialist domination, not the interests of working people here or elsewhere. I am for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Korea, the Middle East and Europe. I defend the Cuban Revolution and call for an end to the U.S. embargo on Cuba, which is used to suffocate the Cuban population for their decision to reject living under Washington’s boot.

    While this might be extreme, it’s not too far off from bad foreign policy takes from Trots. Some support for Cuba sprinkled in there but to aggressively support Israel is inexcusable.

    A Trot with not bad foreign policy takes in a good Trot, in my book. They’re just hard to find.

    • axont [she/her, comrade/them]
      ·
      9 months ago

      I have been looking forever for that one British Trot magazine that claimed South Vietnam had the right of self-determination

    • itappearsthat
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      9 months ago

      I was part of a huge palestine march last month and on the route we passed some sad old white people set up with a table saying things like "workers support Israel" or some such. Trots.

    • Rx_Hawk [he/him]
      ·
      9 months ago

      The capitalist regime in Tehran and the reactionary forces it backs

      Lol, I had to stop here

      • Greenleaf [he/him]
        ·
        9 months ago

        Yeah I debated posting this or not, because it’s so extreme and I feel like posting the worst of some tendencies is uncomradely. But I think this particular quote is useful in showing how leftists (in this case Trots, but applies to everyone) can mix in good takes with bad, especially when it comes to global issues.

        Laura Garza isn’t young. I have a strong suspicion that younger Trots (say under 40) as well as younger leftists of all tendencies probably have way better views. Because for older people, a lot of their ideology was developed before the internet took off, so their ideology developed in a silo, disconnected from other leftists who are more correct who can challenge their views.