So there was a recent post of some right wingers standing next to a ballot box to intimidate voters. This is clearly bad. They also made questionable aesthetic choices, like wearing dad cargo-shorts and growing goatees. This is also clearly bad.

So, what did Chapeau.Chat focus on? The weight of these men of course!

Let's start with the basics:

--Everyone has a range of weights their body is comfortable at. If you try to go too low or too high in this range, your body will start sending your hunger and satiety signals to keep you within that range. While you can go higher or lower in that range by manipulating Calories-in-calories-out, this range is fairly fixed without medical intervention. In other words, some people are just fat.

--There are other uncontrollable factors that effect weight. In Texas, for example, there are fewer walk-able neighborhoods and more access to fast food than here in Portland where there are more new-seasons than mcDonalds or Manhattan where it's easier to take the train than to drive.

--Socially, weight is co-constructed with fitness and self-control. In the protestant value system (the dominant one in the U.S. even among atheists), self control is one of the most important virtues. Fat implies unfit implies poor self control. Thin implies fit implies good self control.

Protestant morality is, here, at odds with reality. Weight here is co-produced by environment, hormones, eating habits and movement habits. All of those things are only partially under our control, and a Portlander is always going to have an easier time being thin than an Austintonian. Moralizing weight the way this community did celebrates protestant morality over basic reality.

As communists, we are better than that.

Call them fascists, make fun of their ugly beards, offer to shoplift them better shorts, but don't fat-shame them.

  • Nagarjuna [he/him]
    hexagon
    ·
    2 years ago

    "effort thinking about food" downplays how strong hunger signals can be.

          • Nakoichi [they/them]M
            ·
            2 years ago

            Bullshit as someone that has suffered from food insecurity for much of my young life this is a super fucked up take.

            • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
              ·
              2 years ago

              Man, for fucks sake, of course I'm not talking about when you're actually not eating enough. But people who are actually not getting enough food are not fat. That's not relevant to this conversation, it's just bad-faith nonsense

              • Nakoichi [they/them]M
                ·
                2 years ago

                Guess what some of my very poor friends in the same situation were also overweight.

                There are extraneous environmental factors here and just saying "hunger pain goes away if you just ignore it" Is the same as saying "it's your fault fatty"

                • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 years ago

                  Yeah you can be obese and malnourished. It's a big problem in "middle income" countries like South Africa.

                  Here 25% of the population has growth stunted from malnutrition, whlie over 30% of men and 60% of women are obese or overweight

            • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
              ·
              edit-2
              2 years ago

              I never said it's not difficult to go from an unhealthy relationship with food in which one overeats daily to a healthy relationship with food in which one eats a healthy amount. Of course it's difficult, for a wide variety of reasons. None of those reasons are that you were destined to be fat. Making up bullshit about how some people are just "naturally" fat is harmful to people trying to learn how to get out of these traps.

                • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  Making up bullshit about what I’ve never said is harmful to people trying to have a discussion.

                  The very first bullet point in the post we're discussing says, "some people are just fat." Try to keep up.

                  The point is that thinking of obesity as “It’s all in your head lol” instead of “This is a massive societal problem that requires education, social support, and medical interventions” is kinda a shitty reductive take.

                  I'm the one saying that second quote, OP is actually the one saying the opposite, which is that obesity is all in your destiny.

                    • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
                      ·
                      2 years ago

                      When people are being assholes to me I will also be an asshole to them :shrug-outta-hecks:

                        • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
                          ·
                          2 years ago

                          Everything any of us do is a waste of time online and offline, you think you're being "mature" and above it all and cool and edgy, but you're actually just being an asshole to me the same way I was being an asshole to those other people :shrug-outta-hecks:

                            • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
                              ·
                              edit-2
                              2 years ago

                              Good fucking god. If you want me to take you seriously for even half a second, please explain how what you're doing is in any way different from "wasting your time in some (the very same, in fact) obscure hole on the internet."

                              There's literally no difference between my comments and your comments. You're being an asshole to me about shit that doesn't matter because you took issue with something I said in a dumb internet comment.

              • aaro [they/them, she/her]
                ·
                2 years ago

                I almost can't believe that this argument is being made in good faith.

                Just to clarify real quick: people being born with "fat"/"not fat" genetics might be a factor to some extent but isn't the majority cause here. Seriously consider what car-centric culture, an over-abundance of fast food, the most advertising dollars per capita of any nation in the world, and prohibitively expensive medical care might do to a poor person's weight.

        • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Eye-rolling emojis don't make it untrue :shrug-outta-hecks:

          Hunger isn't a real thing. It doesn't exist. If you make conscious decisions about what to eat based on an informed view of nutrition, you will still feel hungry. It's not some magic signal telling you that you're not getting enough nutrients, it's a dumb feeling that exists in your head. You ignore it, and it goes away. The feeling of hunger cannot harm you.

          • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]
            ·
            2 years ago

            The feeling of hunger cannot harm you.

            It is, quite literally, pain. There is no point in talking to you about this topic, you've had this exact argument several times, and you always just have the take away everyone else is stupider than you and feeling hungry isn't a problem.

              • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]
                ·
                2 years ago

                ah yes because psychological harm isn't harmful. because blowing your willpower on not eating doesn't take away from your capacity to deal with other stressors.

                Lady, your attitude is terrible.

              • aaro [they/them, she/her]
                ·
                2 years ago

                unharmful hunger pains.

                You have just outed yourself to having no experience or understanding of what you are talking about.

              • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]
                ·
                2 years ago

                I don't know, I personally feel better when I am physically unwell but in good spirits compared to when I am physically fine but in mental pain. Also, if the problem is you feel hungry, eating is the solution. "Just get over it" is not, it doesn't solve the problem.

          • aaro [they/them, she/her]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Hunger isn’t a real thing. It doesn’t exist.

            Reminds me of this. Please, I beg of you, do better to be in touch with the real material conditions of your comrades instead of trying to intellectualize struggles you don't experience. A leftism without empathy is not leftism.

      • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Lmao I wish that's how it worked for everyone.

        You're technically right that no one is "just fat" but hunger even when you just ate a massive meal a few hours ago, feeling full when you're actually not and just ate 1000 calories the whole day, it never really goes away for some people.

        I still have to consistently "overeat" to keep the weight I put on that keeps my BMI in a healthy range. Even though objectively I'm eating a healthy amount of food, it still feels like it's too much for me. I imagine a lot of folks that have lost weight have to do the opposite to keep the weight off.

        • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
          ·
          2 years ago

          I still have to consistently “overeat” to keep the weight I put on that keeps my BMI in a healthy range

          That's not what overeating is lol

            • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
              ·
              2 years ago

              Sure, you can just decide to call something "overeating" when everyone involved in the discussion knows that what you're describing is not overeating, and then you're exempt from people going :jesse-wtf:

              They're just describing eating a healthy amount of food but misusing a negative word to describe it.

              • Nakoichi [they/them]M
                ·
                edit-2
                2 years ago

                You're completely derailing this post, it isn't about semantics it's about not saying things that are harmful to your comrades that browse this site, and body shaming has been a consistent problem here for a long time.

                Why are you so invested in defending body shaming? Fascists aren't going to see those comments only our comrades, and to some of them this is actually harmful.

                "Fat" in the context of the OP just means not conforming to entirely unreasonable western beauty standards.

                • Catherine_Steward [she/her]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  I'd say OP derailed the post by throwing in anti-science silliness that people like me feel necessary to counter. I'm not defending body shaming, and have never defended body shaming, and have not engaged with any part of the post or comments which discuss body shaming in any way whatsoever.

                  • Nakoichi [they/them]M
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    2 years ago

                    So they maybe didn't word it perfectly but that isn't the point.

                    You are seizing on a semantic issue and ignoring the substance.

                    have not engaged with any part of the post or comments which discuss body shaming in any way whatsoever.

                    Yes I know you just came in to argue a point irrelevant to the problem that OP is pointing out with the community that body shaming is a problem.

                      • Nakoichi [they/them]M
                        ·
                        2 years ago

                        I'm not going to engage with you further on this because you aren't here to address the problem at hand and just want to argue over something that is barely tangential to the substance of the post.

                          • Nakoichi [they/them]M
                            ·
                            2 years ago

                            I guess this is just funny to me because I never claimed to be.

                            Then you should probably stay out of the discussion.

                              • Nakoichi [they/them]M
                                ·
                                2 years ago

                                The problem is bodyshaming that is prevalent on this site.

                                Try to keep up.

                                  • Nakoichi [they/them]M
                                    ·
                                    2 years ago

                                    It was the entire point of the post, and yes some people do have different natural body shapes and that "fatness" in the context of this post (which is different from obesity) is a product of western beauty standards. I'm going to need you to step out of this discussion because you're just shit stirring and derailing the point of the post.