I get that sentiment, but religion is a powerful weapon and right now the reactionaries are the ones who wield it. We can try to extinguish it when it's no longer useful, but I don't think we can really combat religion in the near-term without alienating a huge contingent of the working class. It's just more expedient to co-opt it than to wait for people's material conditions to devolve to the point where they lose their faith.
I don't think we need like, official party doctrine or something, but maybe some sort of parallel universalist ecclesiastic body with a focus on community building and liberation that can be adapted to fit different cultural narratives? I haven't really worked a lot of these thoughts out yet.
religion was never "ours" there's no "back" here. we could take it but organized religion has always been reactionary and people aren't going to do any better of a job following a commie bible than they do the real one.
I think the book is less important than the community of shared values. If you go to a Baptist sermon then you are going to get a very different view of what the Bible asks of you than if you were to attend a Catholic mass or an Episcopal service. If you go to that same church every single Sunday and engage with your community as part of the group, there's a good chance you'll internalize some of their beliefs.
But that's not really my point. What do we do in the short-term to combat religious extremism under the present conditions without alienating the largely religious working class? That's the question I'm trying to investigate. If co-opting religion isn't the answer then I'm perfectly fine with that, but we have to try something, right?
i genuinely think widening the gulf between actual serious believers and normal people would help
you say the "largely religious" working class, but it's like 60% and falling, and having been in moderate churches, those people could all take or leave the organized part. wouldn't miss the org if there was literally any community thing to replace the habit.
building the mutual aid we want to do anyway and doing community stuff that churches (don't) do (nearly as much of as they milk for the reputation) and without holding somebody's sandwich hostage until they listen to us yak about jesus and sin gets you all the benefit of trying to appropriate religion without any of the idealism, falsehoods, or magical thinking.
but... we need to actually do all that mutual aid stuff and in america that's kinda hit or miss.
I get that sentiment, but religion is a powerful weapon and right now the reactionaries are the ones who wield it. We can try to extinguish it when it's no longer useful, but I don't think we can really combat religion in the near-term without alienating a huge contingent of the working class. It's just more expedient to co-opt it than to wait for people's material conditions to devolve to the point where they lose their faith.
I don't think we need like, official party doctrine or something, but maybe some sort of parallel universalist ecclesiastic body with a focus on community building and liberation that can be adapted to fit different cultural narratives? I haven't really worked a lot of these thoughts out yet.
religion was never "ours" there's no "back" here. we could take it but organized religion has always been reactionary and people aren't going to do any better of a job following a commie bible than they do the real one.
I think the book is less important than the community of shared values. If you go to a Baptist sermon then you are going to get a very different view of what the Bible asks of you than if you were to attend a Catholic mass or an Episcopal service. If you go to that same church every single Sunday and engage with your community as part of the group, there's a good chance you'll internalize some of their beliefs.
But that's not really my point. What do we do in the short-term to combat religious extremism under the present conditions without alienating the largely religious working class? That's the question I'm trying to investigate. If co-opting religion isn't the answer then I'm perfectly fine with that, but we have to try something, right?
i genuinely think widening the gulf between actual serious believers and normal people would help
you say the "largely religious" working class, but it's like 60% and falling, and having been in moderate churches, those people could all take or leave the organized part. wouldn't miss the org if there was literally any community thing to replace the habit.
building the mutual aid we want to do anyway and doing community stuff that churches (don't) do (nearly as much of as they milk for the reputation) and without holding somebody's sandwich hostage until they listen to us yak about jesus and sin gets you all the benefit of trying to appropriate religion without any of the idealism, falsehoods, or magical thinking.
but... we need to actually do all that mutual aid stuff and in america that's kinda hit or miss.