Idk what the point is because that statement is also literally correct even from a marxist perspective except for the "capital has rights" bit, capital exists and there is a beneficial relationship between labor and capital, the problem with capitalism is the ownership and direction of said capital being the privilege of individuals at the expense of greater society. There is no such thing as a socialist society in which capital doesn't exist unless you want to go full 100% an-prim with it.
The latter part going full 1800s American mutualist "muh sole proprietors!" is more cringe but still a much better take than most people have
So in a society where the means of production have been completely collectivized there will still be a capitalist class? I don't think this is correct.
I don't want to die on a hill defending Lincoln but you could argue that capital does/should have "rights" i.e. the right to not be vandalized because, as it is the collective endowment of society, its senseless destruction should be prevented. You can make that statement without any argument for or consideration of a "capitalist class."
The main "point" to this paragraph doesn't seem to me to be "but also capitalists have rights too! both sides!" but rather to be like "well actually sweaty if you own the capital and do all the work yourself then there's no problem," which has Lincoln sounding at-worst like some Josiah Warren type mutualist/libertarian socialist guy, and which isn't technically incorrect as long as you ignore how unfeasible it is for everyone to be some sole proprietor with capital magicked out of their asshole.
either way I don't think this really detracts from the first statement, at least in its use for propaganda in arguing with shit libs, and I'm not going to fault Lincoln for not having the Marxist view on things since even if he were amenable to those ideas this speech was like almost a decade before Das Kapital was even published. I'm aware that communism preceded Marx but my understanding is that a lot of what was popular in America in the preceding decades was this exact sort of opinion.
Idk what the point is because that statement is also literally correct even from a marxist perspective except for the "capital has rights" bit, capital exists and there is a beneficial relationship between labor and capital, the problem with capitalism is the ownership and direction of said capital being the privilege of individuals at the expense of greater society. There is no such thing as a socialist society in which capital doesn't exist unless you want to go full 100% an-prim with it.
The latter part going full 1800s American mutualist "muh sole proprietors!" is more cringe but still a much better take than most people have
I think the bit about capital having rights is the whole issue here
So in a society where the means of production have been completely collectivized there will still be a capitalist class? I don't think this is correct.
Capital exists independent of a capitalist class though
Sure, but unless Lincoln is seeking to endow rights upon resources, "capital" in this instance is referring to a group of people.
I don't want to die on a hill defending Lincoln but you could argue that capital does/should have "rights" i.e. the right to not be vandalized because, as it is the collective endowment of society, its senseless destruction should be prevented. You can make that statement without any argument for or consideration of a "capitalist class."
The main "point" to this paragraph doesn't seem to me to be "but also capitalists have rights too! both sides!" but rather to be like "well actually sweaty if you own the capital and do all the work yourself then there's no problem," which has Lincoln sounding at-worst like some Josiah Warren type mutualist/libertarian socialist guy, and which isn't technically incorrect as long as you ignore how unfeasible it is for everyone to be some sole proprietor with capital magicked out of their asshole.
either way I don't think this really detracts from the first statement, at least in its use for propaganda in arguing with shit libs, and I'm not going to fault Lincoln for not having the Marxist view on things since even if he were amenable to those ideas this speech was like almost a decade before Das Kapital was even published. I'm aware that communism preceded Marx but my understanding is that a lot of what was popular in America in the preceding decades was this exact sort of opinion.