I’m sorry. I failed to understand how deeply the Western propaganda machine is embedded within all that we consider “news” and uncritically believed the AP article because it “seemed true” i.e. confirmed my biases.

Then I got pressed and malded in the comments, when called out.

Thank you for education me. I have some serious learning to do.

Special thanks (and apology) to @Awoo @kristina @American_Communist22 and everyone else who engaged with me over multiple comments. Sorry for being so thick-headed. I’ll do better in the future.

  • Awoo [she/her]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Huh you're a new type of person to me, less liberal than I thought.

    Like, you didn’t mention it, but with the recent protests in Iran. I’m inclined to support the protestors. I see the videos constantly on Tiktok and it’s absolutely heartbreaking. I consider those videos different from reading about the news in the BBC etc.

    Ok so, Iran let's start there. This one's a currently developing situation so I won't say that I'm completely settled on it yet but I think there's many red flags to be aware of. I am pretty concerned that this looks like a western colour revolution.

    Middle East - I’m 100% against US/Western invasion or intervention, even if I find people like Saddam, Gaddafi, and Assad to be disgusting and horrific. But, I guess that means I do fall for Western atrocity propaganda when I read news about these places?

    I think if you're a supporter of socialism then there may be some things to learn in this area. How much do you know about Ba'athism and Arab Socialism ? And on the topic of Gaddafi, how much do you know about his interpretations of socialism and his Third International Theory ?

    • LiberalSocialist [any,they/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      I'm reading through these right now and realizing that my whole life is a fucking lie.

      One thing that pops up frequently is "class collaboration" rather than "class struggle". It seems they are anti-West, but they're also pro-nationalism and Islam, which isn't a bad thing, obviously, at least until it leads to them denouncing Marxism as atheistic and turns their criticism of capitalism from one rooted in its contradictions, to a more "moralistic" critique and advocacy for a return to a more "simpler" system.

      But, I don't really care if we disagree on how to bring about socialism, if what you end up doing is stuff like this:

      Gaddafi's domestic popularity stemmed from his overthrow of the monarchy, his removal of the Italian settlers and both American and British air bases from Libyan territory, and his redistribution of the country's land on a more equitable basis.[474] Supporters praised Gaddafi's administration for the creation of an almost classless society through domestic reform.[475] They stressed the regime's achievements in combating homelessness, ensuring access to food and safe drinking water, and to dramatic improvements in education; under Gaddafi, literacy rates rose significantly, and all education to university level was free.[475] Gaddafi's Great Man-Made River is the world's largest irrigation project.[476] Supporters have also applauded achievements in medical care, praising the universal free healthcare provided under the Gaddafist administration, with diseases like cholera and typhoid being contained and life expectancy raised.

      It doesn't matter whether a cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice.

      • Awoo [she/her]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Right you're starting to see just why the west hated these people so much now. They weren't perfect socialists, not from our perspective, but they had a sort of leftism that is actually worth understanding under the material conditions that they were under. With this perspective it then brings about a completely new lens through which to view actions that were depicted as "barbaric" and actions that you may have previously just been led to believe were because these were bad evil people hell bent on power for no reason whatsoever other than being bad evil people.

        Now, are some of the things they've done criticisable? Almost certainly. But a different lens is required with a much fairer, more educated and analytical perspective. The western media has deliberately miseducated as to who these people were and what they sought to do.

        I will never forget for example this post Parenti made when Libya fell. What did nato bring to Libya with the US backed regime change? Literal slave markets re-opened and the country has been a disaster ever since.

        • panopticon [comrade/them]
          ·
          2 years ago
          1. Libya had no external debt and its reserves amounted to $150 billion - which are now frozen globally

          Hmm. Seeing a pattern in which countries the US/NATO decides to fuck with ...