- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmygrad.ml
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Not only that, but Iran actually said that if UNSC would condemn Israel then Iran wouldn't have to respond.
Lol this post on the deprogram subreddit was truly filled with lib brainrot before it got removed.
Reddit leftism is 100% vibes-based and driven by r/latestagecapitalism. It's fine, it started that way for a lot of us. But the bones aren't yet formed for people to hang their understanding on.
I think Reddit has just got shittier in general in the past year (if you can believe that)
after r/cth got big reddit starting purging leftist mods from any subreddit that started gaining traction before they outright banned cth and blocked any account associated with it from starting subreddits
Any country with a worse opinion on gay rights than Obama circa 2008 should be bombed
When the Martians finally invade New York, I'm rooting for the Martians.
The tendency in DSA is uncritical support of anti-imperialist state or militant action, especially within the international committee which puts out the vast majority of comms on these topics. The "Robin" in this meme, putting forward any formal critique (a fundamental and essential component of practicing Marxism) is very much the minority position.
As usual this is people who don't know what they're talking about, making up an enemy to feel superior to, based on a lack of critical analysis. Common Deprogram L
That symbol is not a DSA thing, it is used by demsoc parties everywhere.
France's Socialist Party
Show
Gorbachev's defunct Union of Social Democrats' youth organization which has been resurrected uses the exact same symbol
Show
Socialist Party of Senegal uses the same version
Show
Oh and of course it is literally the logo of the Socialist International
Showhttps://www.socialistinternational.org/
To say nothing of the dozen other slight variations socdem and demsoc parties use. Some of them are good on Iran, others are awful. But it is important to remember that the symbol is not a DSA thing, its an international one, and it is not always about American non-party organizations.
Let's see what the First Secretary of the French Socialist Party had to say about this exact matter this week
“A direct attack that I condemn very firmly, and without any possible concession to this theocracy ,” he assures. “We are facing a potentially dramatic escalation, and I in turn call for restraint, for de-escalation, for Israel not to launch itself into a response which could lead us into a regionalization of the conflict that we've been trying to avoid it all along." https://www.radiofrance.fr/franceinter/podcasts/questions-politiques/questions-politiques-du-dimanche-14-avril-2024-1122670
Another waffling answer
Guest of Political Questions on France Inter, the first secretary of the PS, Olivier Faure , also called on Sunday for "restraint, for de-escalation, for Israel not to launch itself into a response which (... ) could lead us into a regionalization of the conflict. Asked about a possible involvement of France in the conflict, Olivier Faure stressed that Paris must play "a balancing role in the region" and "not participate in a spiral".
"When it comes to defending Israel when an attack is made against (it), the obvious thing is that we must be on its side. But we must not participate now in an offensive which (...) would potentially lead to a regionalization of the conflict,” he stressed. https://www.europe1.fr/politique/la-france-doit-assurer-a-israel-son-soutien-et-chercher-la-desescalade-estime-francois-hollande-4241477
As for the rest of the party's faces reaction
“There is still someone more at fault. We cannot be equidistant. It’s Iran,” judged François Hollande, pointing to regular attacks against Israel from the Iranians’ allies, Hezbollah in Lebanon or the Houthis in Yemen. Head of the PS list in the European elections, Raphaël Glucksmann also calls for “act to obtain an immediate and lasting ceasefire in Gaza”, and “act against the Iranian regime and its proxies (Hezbollah, Houthis, etc.)” . His competitor Les Républicains, François-Xavier Bellamy, showed total support for Israel, “the only democracy in the region” , the destruction of which Iran would make “one of the reasons for its regime”. Guest of the Grand Jury on RTL, Bellamy estimated that “our role is to prepare ourselves to fight against this threat, in Iran and in the countries where it seeks to advance its pawns”. https://www.liberation.fr/politique/attaque-iranienne-contre-israel-la-classe-politique-condamne-la-frappe-avec-ses-nuances-habituelles-20240414_5QP46YO25JHYRLTLDWBF7DO2VM/
Here is head of the Socialist International Pedro Sanchez https://twitter.com/sanchezcastejon/status/1779427120839631050
After a long and distressing night in which the scale of the attack perpetrated by Iran has been confirmed, the government of Spain condemns it, as it has condemned and will always condemn all forms of violence that threaten the safety and well-being of innocent civilians.
The response of all international leaders demands responsibility and restraint.
We must learn from history. And find a way to resolve conflicts through diplomatic channels, avoiding at all costs an even greater escalation.
I'd say that shit makes it more than reasonable to use the symbol of the SI as a stand in for people who are unwilling to support Iran. Again, it is not a DSA exclusive or even primarily DSA thing
Thanks for taking the time to put all that together. I agree, with you. My mistake
The tendency in DSA is uncritical support of anti-imperialist state or militant action, especially within the international committee which puts out the vast majority of comms on these topics. The "Robin" in this meme, putting forward any formal critique (a fundamental and essential component of practicing Marxism) is very much the minority position.
I'll believe it when I see it
Here’s a link, take a look. https://international.dsausa.org/statements/
They pretty much tell on themselves here: https://international.dsausa.org/statements/on-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/
They "condemn" Russia. What a joke... No wonder the Global South doesn't give a shit about the Democratic Sheepherders of America. I didn't see anything on their site supporting Venezuela, China, DPRK, etc. I only see milquetoast "we stand with the 'people' of Venezuela, Cuba, etc." They're too chicken to actually support any of the governments in AES countries. They only support "the people" of those countries. What a fucking cop-out scaredy-cat fucking response. That's like when libs/chuds say "I hate the goverment but support the people!" fucking bullshit. Fuck the DSA. Actually, after seeing those "statements" I'm going to actively tell people I know to stay the fuck away from DSA. They're waaay worse than I thought.
Honestly I think you’re writing off DSA because you don’t fully understand how it works. It a big tent with plenty of trots and libs in the org. However there are also a lot of MLs who radicalized within DSA who are hoping to turn it towards genuine anti imperialist. If those statements are too bland for you check out the international committees youtube channel.
http://youtube.com/@DSAInternationalCommittee/featured
The second video is literally called “Yemen Rises: Counter Hegemony and Solidarity”. Idk what more you could want! They even brought Luna Oi who isn’t shy about being an ML to talk about how American imperialism affected her country. There is also a video on the democratic process that Cuba went through to develop their family code. Also a whole discussion on how the US has and continues to push their imperial agenda on the Korean Peninsula. Vijay Prashad is in there as well discussing the US’s aggression towards China.
If that doesn’t make it clear that DSA at the very least is not a monolith and indeed has people in it that defend AES states then idk what to tell you.
