I think you are mischaracterizing and underestimating NATO's role in the origins of this conflict that began in 2014 with a US-backed right-wing coup in Ukraine. I agree working people have nothing to gain from this conflict, and suffer continually as it goes on. I also don't think Russia is good or anything, but I don't think any working people or liberation movements throughout the world would benefit from the US/NATO/Ukraine "winning" or driving Russia to escalate towards nuclear conflict. If anything, a strategic defeat of the US could further US imperialisms decline and help working people of the world, because the principle opposition to working-class movements throughout the world is the US, not Russia.
I have said nothing about who is or isn't responsible, if anything I literally just said this whole thing is the fault of US foreign policy blunders, and I completely agree with the first part of your comment. I have no idea who you think you are arguing with or why, none of what you said has to do with my point lol.
If anything, a strategic defeat of the US could further US imperialisms decline and help working people of the world, because the principle opposition to working-class movements throughout the world is the US, not Russia.
Russia is not the one running around the globe putting down workers uprising because they are not in a position to do so on account of US capital already having conquered the globe. If they were in a similar position, what exactly do you think they would do? Once again, Russia's opposition to the US is just them acting in their national self-interest. Frankly, CSTO is already plenty competent at putting down workers uprising as we've seen in Kazakhstan.
You see what I mean about framing it in national terms and completely ignoring class? Russia, NATO and the US are not coherent, homogenous entities. US and NATO might be at the helm of the world bourgeoisie at the moment, but Russia is also very well acting in the interest of its own bourgeoisie. Neither of their proles have absolutely anything to gain from any outcome of this war, and neither does Ukraine's when frankly the only difference would be which sphere of influence the kleptocrats running the country would be in. The war also, if anything, rejuvenated faith in NATO by giving them a boogeyman, so any point about it "declining" US imperialism is already moot.
The thing to do when the bourgeoisie are fighting amongst themselves is, and always has been, to attempt to turn it into civil war. People in NATO countries should of course rally against their own, but Russian proles rallying en masse against their own government would also be a good outcome. Seeing every conflict as Team A vs Team B and trying to see which outcome would be marginally better is stupid, the truth is the only conflict that exists is class conflict.
You do not actually have to pick a side in a burgois conflict, in which precisely zero (0), non-burgeois states are involved. Like what does it matter to the working class of either country who wins? It's either the russian or the western burgoisie that oppresses them after. The important thing is to minimize loss of life, it's our people, workers, dieing on the ground or getting scarred for life. Not the western burgeoisie. I refuse to go to bat for a war that is only fought for imperial reasons. I will not cheer on the killing and suffering of working class people.
I think you are mischaracterizing and underestimating NATO's role in the origins of this conflict that began in 2014 with a US-backed right-wing coup in Ukraine. I agree working people have nothing to gain from this conflict, and suffer continually as it goes on. I also don't think Russia is good or anything, but I don't think any working people or liberation movements throughout the world would benefit from the US/NATO/Ukraine "winning" or driving Russia to escalate towards nuclear conflict. If anything, a strategic defeat of the US could further US imperialisms decline and help working people of the world, because the principle opposition to working-class movements throughout the world is the US, not Russia.
I have said nothing about who is or isn't responsible, if anything I literally just said this whole thing is the fault of US foreign policy blunders, and I completely agree with the first part of your comment. I have no idea who you think you are arguing with or why, none of what you said has to do with my point lol.
Russia is not the one running around the globe putting down workers uprising because they are not in a position to do so on account of US capital already having conquered the globe. If they were in a similar position, what exactly do you think they would do? Once again, Russia's opposition to the US is just them acting in their national self-interest. Frankly, CSTO is already plenty competent at putting down workers uprising as we've seen in Kazakhstan.
You see what I mean about framing it in national terms and completely ignoring class? Russia, NATO and the US are not coherent, homogenous entities. US and NATO might be at the helm of the world bourgeoisie at the moment, but Russia is also very well acting in the interest of its own bourgeoisie. Neither of their proles have absolutely anything to gain from any outcome of this war, and neither does Ukraine's when frankly the only difference would be which sphere of influence the kleptocrats running the country would be in. The war also, if anything, rejuvenated faith in NATO by giving them a boogeyman, so any point about it "declining" US imperialism is already moot.
The thing to do when the bourgeoisie are fighting amongst themselves is, and always has been, to attempt to turn it into civil war. People in NATO countries should of course rally against their own, but Russian proles rallying en masse against their own government would also be a good outcome. Seeing every conflict as Team A vs Team B and trying to see which outcome would be marginally better is stupid, the truth is the only conflict that exists is class conflict.
You do not actually have to pick a side in a burgois conflict, in which precisely zero (0), non-burgeois states are involved. Like what does it matter to the working class of either country who wins? It's either the russian or the western burgoisie that oppresses them after. The important thing is to minimize loss of life, it's our people, workers, dieing on the ground or getting scarred for life. Not the western burgeoisie. I refuse to go to bat for a war that is only fought for imperial reasons. I will not cheer on the killing and suffering of working class people.