Was just thinking it really says something that anybody else doing Fallout (Black Isle, Obsidian, Jonathan Nolan) just beats the fucking shit out of anything Bethesda can think to do with it
Wild, they should keep hiring the guys that made the good ones instead of obstinately doing it themselves. That said, what is Bethesda actually good at other than marketing and owning the Ip?
Oblivion and skyrim are good because they're enjoyable games, actually
I think entertainment slop should just be entertainment slop. I don't need something "deep" or "complex" when I'm trying to relax/take a break from the troubles of real life
Apparently elder scrolls online is good too but that's a zenimax effort so that kinda goes towards proving your point
It's pretty enjoyable for what it is, which is a Bethesda™ Fallout story, just with characters you might actually care about and a story that basically works. There's also a surprising amount of stuff that is set pre-war and they really go for it with "filling out" the backstory of Fallout and changing the status quo of its world, it's just a shame that everything they do lore-wise makes the world less interesting and less resonant. It is fully Bethesda™ Fallout.
I enjoyed it apart from the frequent appearance of Marvel humour which falls completely flat, breaks the tone, hurts the pacing, and just feels shoehorned in. HAHA SEGGS AWOOGA
It's 1 one episode of exposition, six episodes of characters walking towards the mcguffin and then another episode of exposition. I it probably beats most other streaming shows but damn have we lowered the bar for that.
mf when i'm introduced to the world, characters proceed to interact with each other and grow while facing obstacles to their goal, and burning questions are answered in the climax
Show
sure it's not kino but that's just how stories are generally told
Lore changes shit me, but it's pretty fun and is goofy when it needs to without sacrificing the dark things. It ain't perfect but like the live action one piece its better than it has any right to be given the source material is unfilmable.
I feel like lore... loyalty? Is an annoying feature of fans reacting to adaptations (or indeed, changes to "canon"). Like, some changes are bad, and bad things are more noticeable if the source material had something better, but people like to play in stories. Settings are very fluid and just provide a framework for creating your own stuff
Yeah, I'm not a hardcore lore purist and i love a bit of multiple choice history like Elder Scrolls or Mad Max.
But some things do shift "the vibe" a bit, and this is clearly the Bethseda, not the Obsidian or Black Isle versions of Fallout in tone. And some things feel like petty hits on the non Bethesda games to regain narrative dominance
40k has it really bad, fans want to know what horus had for breakfast every day and what really happened, instead of being a muddy setting for telling your own stories and playing wargames in.
Agreeing with you, just want a place to dump my thoughts :)
Others have mentioned it and filled out the reasoning more, but basically Bethesda has a very “marketable” idea of what Fallout is, and everything they do or allow to be done with the IP they paid for, is in the service of furthering that.
All lore is fanfiction, new IP holders want to make money so they’re going to cut and emphasize where they want, regardless of the previously existing lore. In Bethesda’s case you can look at what Fallout 3, 4, 76, and the show have in common, and what it doesn’t have in common with NV, 1, and even 2 though to a lesser extent.
Tbf the only Lore thing that was iffy about the show was the location of Shady Sands possibly being moved to LA when it was originally in like Eastern California by Inyo National Forest
Everything else was vague enough to have wiggle room, could have alternate explanations or have good reasons why they are the way they are.
Like the NCR more than likely is consolidated now past LA, not completely gone.
it's very funny how tim cain, the guy who literally created fallout, is like "hey the show is good and nails the tone and humor, canon doesn't matter all too much" meanwhile NMA-esque lorecels are melting down about how it's an affront to everything fallout is supposed to be
Tim Cain subscribes to the same ethos as myself and some others here, it’s all fanfiction regardless of who owns the IP. Canon is meaningless, Diagetic Essentialism is a dead end.
Yep. I liked it. I think it's pretty approachable as well for anyone who hasn't played fallout before. If you're completely unfamiliar with it, the only thing you really need to know is that American culture kinda paused in the 50s and a lot of technology stayed the same, so the pre-war era has a retro-futuristic aesthetic. Basically everything else is explained as the show goes on
Technically, the leading lore theory is that culture progressed, and then regressed as society started to crumble with the Resource Wars, Sino-American War, and the New Plague, with fascism rising.
The evidence for this is largely in New Vegas referencing the hippie movement and other cultural artifacts.
And it’s interesting how much pushback in studio they got from the Fallout 1 developers when the Fallout 2 team wanted to move in that direction. It was pretty intentional with Fallout 1 to keep it where you didn’t need a pop culture encyclopedia to understand everything.
Timothy Cain has a wonderful youtube chanel, lots of interesting stories.
All the complaints I’ve seen made me think the audience score was gonna be like 20% because of DA WOKE but then I checked and both are in the high 80s, low 90%
I thought it was great. One of the better shows tbh. Not as good as Andor but it kind of feels like that's what they were aiming for but they just fall a little short.
So, like, is the show any good?
It's pretty good yeah
Was just thinking it really says something that anybody else doing Fallout (Black Isle, Obsidian, Jonathan Nolan) just beats the fucking shit out of anything Bethesda can think to do with it
Wild, they should keep hiring the guys that made the good ones instead of obstinately doing it themselves. That said, what is Bethesda actually good at other than marketing and owning the Ip?
I mean Morrowind was good but it was the last ditch crazed flailing of a dying company that paid off.
Plus a good chunk of the people who made Morrowind good left during the development of Oblivion or Fallout. 3
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Bethesda is very good at gaslighting the entire industry into thinking "RPG" means any game with a level-up system and loot.
"RPG elements" as advertising buzz is like "techniques from your favourite novels" meaning words
Oblivion and skyrim are good because they're enjoyable games, actually
I think entertainment slop should just be entertainment slop. I don't need something "deep" or "complex" when I'm trying to relax/take a break from the troubles of real life
Apparently elder scrolls online is good too but that's a zenimax effort so that kinda goes towards proving your point
Riding on the coattails of better writers and game designers.
It's pretty enjoyable for what it is, which is a Bethesda™ Fallout story, just with characters you might actually care about and a story that basically works. There's also a surprising amount of stuff that is set pre-war and they really go for it with "filling out" the backstory of Fallout and changing the status quo of its world, it's just a shame that everything they do lore-wise makes the world less interesting and less resonant. It is fully Bethesda™ Fallout.
I enjoyed it apart from the frequent appearance of Marvel humour which falls completely flat, breaks the tone, hurts the pacing, and just feels shoehorned in. HAHA SEGGS AWOOGA
Well, that happened! - during otherwise heavy scene
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
look i get it, but "hey wanna make my cock explode?? intercourse??" said in the most goofily earnest voice has stuck in my head ever since
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I just hope the brotherhood gets its fascist head kicked in sometime soon
It's 1 one episode of exposition, six episodes of characters walking towards the mcguffin and then another episode of exposition. I it probably beats most other streaming shows but damn have we lowered the bar for that.
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mf when i'm introduced to the world, characters proceed to interact with each other and grow while facing obstacles to their goal, and burning questions are answered in the climax
sure it's not kino but that's just how stories are generally told
Damn, I only watched Halo show because people complained about it
Lore changes shit me, but it's pretty fun and is goofy when it needs to without sacrificing the dark things. It ain't perfect but like the live action one piece its better than it has any right to be given the source material is unfilmable.
I feel like lore... loyalty? Is an annoying feature of fans reacting to adaptations (or indeed, changes to "canon"). Like, some changes are bad, and bad things are more noticeable if the source material had something better, but people like to play in stories. Settings are very fluid and just provide a framework for creating your own stuff
Yeah, I'm not a hardcore lore purist and i love a bit of multiple choice history like Elder Scrolls or Mad Max.
But some things do shift "the vibe" a bit, and this is clearly the Bethseda, not the Obsidian or Black Isle versions of Fallout in tone. And some things feel like petty hits on the non Bethesda games to regain narrative dominance
40k has it really bad, fans want to know what horus had for breakfast every day and what really happened, instead of being a muddy setting for telling your own stories and playing wargames in.
Agreeing with you, just want a place to dump my thoughts :)
Others have mentioned it and filled out the reasoning more, but basically Bethesda has a very “marketable” idea of what Fallout is, and everything they do or allow to be done with the IP they paid for, is in the service of furthering that.
All lore is fanfiction, new IP holders want to make money so they’re going to cut and emphasize where they want, regardless of the previously existing lore. In Bethesda’s case you can look at what Fallout 3, 4, 76, and the show have in common, and what it doesn’t have in common with NV, 1, and even 2 though to a lesser extent.
Tbf the only Lore thing that was iffy about the show was the location of Shady Sands possibly being moved to LA when it was originally in like Eastern California by Inyo National Forest
Everything else was vague enough to have wiggle room, could have alternate explanations or have good reasons why they are the way they are.
Like the NCR more than likely is consolidated now past LA, not completely gone.
it's very funny how tim cain, the guy who literally created fallout, is like "hey the show is good and nails the tone and humor, canon doesn't matter all too much" meanwhile NMA-esque lorecels are melting down about how it's an affront to everything fallout is supposed to be
Fans want... something, idk, but it comes up in so many fandoms
Tim Cain subscribes to the same ethos as myself and some others here, it’s all fanfiction regardless of who owns the IP. Canon is meaningless, Diagetic Essentialism is a dead end.
yep, this is going in my C0DA
I thought the lore changed too but I looked up some dates and I'm pretty sure nothing actually changed.
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Yeahhhhh I was like those jets are not providing enough propulsion to move that heavy ass suit, Iron Man headass 😤
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Yep. I liked it. I think it's pretty approachable as well for anyone who hasn't played fallout before. If you're completely unfamiliar with it, the only thing you really need to know is that American culture kinda paused in the 50s and a lot of technology stayed the same, so the pre-war era has a retro-futuristic aesthetic. Basically everything else is explained as the show goes on
Technically, the leading lore theory is that culture progressed, and then regressed as society started to crumble with the Resource Wars, Sino-American War, and the New Plague, with fascism rising.
The evidence for this is largely in New Vegas referencing the hippie movement and other cultural artifacts.
plus fallout 2 has lots of references to 90s music and culture, although that could just be considered borderline noncanonical easter eggs
To be fair, that's 90% of Fallout 2, lol.
And it’s interesting how much pushback in studio they got from the Fallout 1 developers when the Fallout 2 team wanted to move in that direction. It was pretty intentional with Fallout 1 to keep it where you didn’t need a pop culture encyclopedia to understand everything.
Timothy Cain has a wonderful youtube chanel, lots of interesting stories.
Fascism kills culture development
All the complaints I’ve seen made me think the audience score was gonna be like 20% because of DA WOKE but then I checked and both are in the high 80s, low 90%
I thought it was great. One of the better shows tbh. Not as good as Andor but it kind of feels like that's what they were aiming for but they just fall a little short.
I just started the first two episodes and it sold me. They get the humor of the franchise really well.