Christ I didn't say Ali was positive masculinity I said he was a role model that the left used to have.

It is fucking impossible to have a fair conversation about this if you do not actually listen to what other people have to say, and instead keep mixing together different stuff. If you keep ignoring the qualifying parts where people say specifically that they don't want it to be like past instances of machismo then of course it sounds bad.

uh if you read takes from actual activists like the OG black panthers, the women have made it clear how shitty this “positive machismo” strategy is for women in practice

Yeah great but the COMPLETE ABSENCE of anything at all just makes this a playground for fascists to groom recruits. You can not convince me that no left wing attempt to provide positive male figures to children that are seeking them out is better than having SOMETHING even if it ends up being imperfect when the alternative is just letting fascists provide an education in pure and unadulterated mysogyny to these children.

Also men don’t actually want ever a real “positive masculine” role

This isn't about men, it's about impressionable young boys during hormonal years who are extremely easy for fascists to groom . You are not listening.

2 day old account.