First of all your assessment of masculinity under communism is to make de-emphasize it or to erase it completley "The goal of any communist rhetoric around masculinity should be to educate men on how placing an extremely high value on their gender roles is unnecessary and not in their interests." do you think the masses should simply DO THE WORK themselves and all voluntarily symbolically castrate theirselves before society to prove their revolutionary bonafides???? There is no home for masculinity on the left and it is OUR collective failure. There would be no quarrel with creating female, or any other identity space in leftist circles but there is a massive resistance to making male safe places. I don't really care or need that but it does expose our limitations largely due to ideological dogma and our failure to incorporate large swaths of the population.
Communism is a political and economic movement based on the uplifting of the proletariat, it is not a self help group for men. Masculinity and internet culture war takes about it are irrelevant to our economic class.
Women (and other non-male gendered people) do need uplifting because under a patriarchal system they are the underclass and face a unique type of oppression related to their gender roles. Men do not face oppression related to our gender. As stated above, men are forced into roles which maintain and support that system and are not actually free to express themselves, so destroying the patriarchal system would also benefit us, but in a different way than it would benefit women.
If you want to start an explicitly Socialist self help group for men which explores positive masculinity within a socialist context go ahead, no one is stopping you. But it is not relevant to the material goals of uplifting the oppressed masses.
do you think the masses should simply DO THE WORK themselves and all voluntarily symbolically castrate theirselves before society to prove their revolutionary bonafides
What the fuck are you even talking about here. Castrate theirselves? Im a man and I am not castrated if I dont fit other men's definition of masculinity.
If any of you would give me a material reason why "masculinity" as a concept actually matters to I could engage with that, but as it stands its just a nebulous concept related to patriarchal norms and I see no reason why it needs catered to.
You seeing it as a nebulous concept with no reason to cater to it shows your lack of taking this problem seriously and exemplifies bad faith. Would you apply the same rubric to femininity?
Your just up on that Andrew Taint shit aint you? I can tell by your comments. Fuck that guy. I'm not near about any of that shit. Women and men collectively hold up the sky so help me visualize what this looks like in an equitable society.
It's to do with Lacanian psychoanalysis Castration is the symbolic lack of an imaginary object. It is essentially tied to the symbolic order and to the central position given by the Oedipus complex. It refers to the symbolic debt in the register of the law. Because in your estimation ALL men are successfully integrated into a repressor relationship and should be symbolically disavowed or castrated to make real the gap between us
:zizek-preference: I have also read Zizek. You should consider broadening your horizons and try to read theorists who actually have experience with gender and sexuality before speaking on it with authority. Zizek absolutely sucks at it.
Oh yes. He's getting worse and worse by the day too. Not my main pull here though. And honestly he was stealing from Lacan, and Lacan from Althusser... but basically the anti communist left in cold war eastern Europe were Euro communist (soc dems). But we're loosing a engagement among young men and it needs to be taken seriously . I see no reason why we can't accommodate all.
First of all your assessment of masculinity under communism is to make de-emphasize it or to erase it completley "The goal of any communist rhetoric around masculinity should be to educate men on how placing an extremely high value on their gender roles is unnecessary and not in their interests." do you think the masses should simply DO THE WORK themselves and all voluntarily symbolically castrate theirselves before society to prove their revolutionary bonafides???? There is no home for masculinity on the left and it is OUR collective failure. There would be no quarrel with creating female, or any other identity space in leftist circles but there is a massive resistance to making male safe places. I don't really care or need that but it does expose our limitations largely due to ideological dogma and our failure to incorporate large swaths of the population.
Communism is a political and economic movement based on the uplifting of the proletariat, it is not a self help group for men. Masculinity and internet culture war takes about it are irrelevant to our economic class.
Women (and other non-male gendered people) do need uplifting because under a patriarchal system they are the underclass and face a unique type of oppression related to their gender roles. Men do not face oppression related to our gender. As stated above, men are forced into roles which maintain and support that system and are not actually free to express themselves, so destroying the patriarchal system would also benefit us, but in a different way than it would benefit women.
If you want to start an explicitly Socialist self help group for men which explores positive masculinity within a socialist context go ahead, no one is stopping you. But it is not relevant to the material goals of uplifting the oppressed masses.
What the fuck are you even talking about here. Castrate theirselves? Im a man and I am not castrated if I dont fit other men's definition of masculinity.
If any of you would give me a material reason why "masculinity" as a concept actually matters to I could engage with that, but as it stands its just a nebulous concept related to patriarchal norms and I see no reason why it needs catered to.
You seeing it as a nebulous concept with no reason to cater to it shows your lack of taking this problem seriously and exemplifies bad faith. Would you apply the same rubric to femininity?
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Define this. Because all I see here is some fascist rhetoric about not being man enough.
You dont need a penis to be a masculine or a man, so explain what the fuck you are talking about or fuck off.
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Oof, bad bait
Oof bad baiter
Your just up on that Andrew Taint shit aint you? I can tell by your comments. Fuck that guy. I'm not near about any of that shit. Women and men collectively hold up the sky so help me visualize what this looks like in an equitable society.
It's to do with Lacanian psychoanalysis Castration is the symbolic lack of an imaginary object. It is essentially tied to the symbolic order and to the central position given by the Oedipus complex. It refers to the symbolic debt in the register of the law. Because in your estimation ALL men are successfully integrated into a repressor relationship and should be symbolically disavowed or castrated to make real the gap between us
:zizek-preference: I have also read Zizek. You should consider broadening your horizons and try to read theorists who actually have experience with gender and sexuality before speaking on it with authority. Zizek absolutely sucks at it.
Oh yes. He's getting worse and worse by the day too. Not my main pull here though. And honestly he was stealing from Lacan, and Lacan from Althusser... but basically the anti communist left in cold war eastern Europe were Euro communist (soc dems). But we're loosing a engagement among young men and it needs to be taken seriously . I see no reason why we can't accommodate all.
:jesse-wtf:
:jesse-wtf:
Look back the fuck off. I disengaged for a reason and I seriously have no fucking clue what your problem is
Ok fair enough. You seem like a good person let's just call it a night. Good night comrade!