Millions will be affected by which chemicals? Because a lot of them - if not all - have become diluted enough in the atmosphere to be a non-issue in Pittsburgh so I can't see New England being affected. For instance, there is some worry about phosgene - exposure limits are just 0.1 ppm! But EPA air analysis of Pittsburgh air showed only 3 parts per billion, so nearly 1/100th the exposure limit.
phosgene is just one chemical present here. its formed from combustion of vinyl chloride, but in relatively small amounts. this article (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0002889718506429) has a pretty good breakdown of vinyl chloride combustion composition. the HCl is the most dangerous because it evaporates to form atmospheric hydrochloric acid leading to acid rain. the carbon monoxide from combustion is also a big health risk. also the vinyl chloride itself is toxic and carcinogenic and a ton of it boiled off into the atmosphere before they started the controlled burns.
good points. norfolk southern released the contents of each car here: https://response.epa.gov/sites/15933/files/TRAIN%2032N%20-%20EAST%20PALESTINE%20-%20derail%20list%20Norfolk%20Southern%20document.pdf . looks like the benzene cars were empty, so there is a bright side, but benzene is nothing compared to vinyl chloride. some simple hydrocarbons as well as some ethers and esters, so those are some additional toxic and flammable contaminants. also a bunch of tankers were filled with glycols which arent haz class but they are still toxic (actually some of the glycols are nontoxic, but diethylene glycol, of which there were 3 cars, is pretty toxic)
i would have thought that you need something with a phenyl group to form dioxins and those benzene tankers being empty was really lucky, but chemistry at really high heat is truly an enigma so ig dioxins will form :(
I know it was sarcasm. I'm exasperated because it seems you're suggesting that's what I said. It also seems like you could be denying the effectiveness of dilution. If you cook with a gas stove and get a headache but then open the window, you're effectively diluting away the pollution. Obviously there are limits to this. As shown by air quality reports in Pittsburgh, that limit is not close to being reached for that one chemical at least.
I’m exasperated because it seems you’re suggesting that’s what I said.
That's what I've been seeing crop up on Reddit and other public forums. "Hey, the toxic release of chemicals isn't a problem because we... uh... opened a window." The dogged insistence that there won't be long-term repercussions and that no industrial scale remediation of the damage caused is necessary seems to be the prevailing view. No need for emergency soil or water treatments. No need for a Superfund site to manage the mess. No need for anyone in Palestine, Ohio to permanently relocate. Saul Goodman.
If you cook with a gas stove and get a headache but then open the window, you’re effectively diluting away the pollution.
What if my gas stove explodes and leaves toxic residue smeared across the interior of my kitchen and living room, though?
As shown by air quality reports in Pittsburgh
I think there's a real trust-gap brewing, particularly wrt how independent journalists and amateur inspectors are being treated by corporate consultants and local/state police. Tapping a piece of paper submitted by the state air quality board and saying "Seems like everything is in order" does not seem to be instilling a great deal of confidence when people are posting pictures and videos of dead animals and giant plums of black smoke
Well I'm definitely not siding with the people saying locals are 100% fine. I'm just speaking on regional and more distant areas. Yes the trust issue is immense and reminds me of COVID response. The government-corporate-media trifecta has completely ruined that. I'll see if the EPA's report has been corroborated by any independent orgs I guess. :shrug-outta-hecks:
Millions will be affected by which chemicals? Because a lot of them - if not all - have become diluted enough in the atmosphere to be a non-issue in Pittsburgh so I can't see New England being affected. For instance, there is some worry about phosgene - exposure limits are just 0.1 ppm! But EPA air analysis of Pittsburgh air showed only 3 parts per billion, so nearly 1/100th the exposure limit.
phosgene is just one chemical present here. its formed from combustion of vinyl chloride, but in relatively small amounts. this article (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0002889718506429) has a pretty good breakdown of vinyl chloride combustion composition. the HCl is the most dangerous because it evaporates to form atmospheric hydrochloric acid leading to acid rain. the carbon monoxide from combustion is also a big health risk. also the vinyl chloride itself is toxic and carcinogenic and a ton of it boiled off into the atmosphere before they started the controlled burns.
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good points. norfolk southern released the contents of each car here: https://response.epa.gov/sites/15933/files/TRAIN%2032N%20-%20EAST%20PALESTINE%20-%20derail%20list%20Norfolk%20Southern%20document.pdf . looks like the benzene cars were empty, so there is a bright side, but benzene is nothing compared to vinyl chloride. some simple hydrocarbons as well as some ethers and esters, so those are some additional toxic and flammable contaminants. also a bunch of tankers were filled with glycols which arent haz class but they are still toxic (actually some of the glycols are nontoxic, but diethylene glycol, of which there were 3 cars, is pretty toxic)
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i would have thought that you need something with a phenyl group to form dioxins and those benzene tankers being empty was really lucky, but chemistry at really high heat is truly an enigma so ig dioxins will form :(
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"The Solution to Pollution is Dilution", I explain, as I fling another car battery into the ocean.
Ugh really? The solution to pollution is to prevent it in the first place. If it does happen, then cleanup and then dilution.
No. That was intended as sarcasm.
I know it was sarcasm. I'm exasperated because it seems you're suggesting that's what I said. It also seems like you could be denying the effectiveness of dilution. If you cook with a gas stove and get a headache but then open the window, you're effectively diluting away the pollution. Obviously there are limits to this. As shown by air quality reports in Pittsburgh, that limit is not close to being reached for that one chemical at least.
That's what I've been seeing crop up on Reddit and other public forums. "Hey, the toxic release of chemicals isn't a problem because we... uh... opened a window." The dogged insistence that there won't be long-term repercussions and that no industrial scale remediation of the damage caused is necessary seems to be the prevailing view. No need for emergency soil or water treatments. No need for a Superfund site to manage the mess. No need for anyone in Palestine, Ohio to permanently relocate. Saul Goodman.
What if my gas stove explodes and leaves toxic residue smeared across the interior of my kitchen and living room, though?
I think there's a real trust-gap brewing, particularly wrt how independent journalists and amateur inspectors are being treated by corporate consultants and local/state police. Tapping a piece of paper submitted by the state air quality board and saying "Seems like everything is in order" does not seem to be instilling a great deal of confidence when people are posting pictures and videos of dead animals and giant plums of black smoke
Well I'm definitely not siding with the people saying locals are 100% fine. I'm just speaking on regional and more distant areas. Yes the trust issue is immense and reminds me of COVID response. The government-corporate-media trifecta has completely ruined that. I'll see if the EPA's report has been corroborated by any independent orgs I guess. :shrug-outta-hecks: